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Ready to elevate your friendship game?!

Join me as I welcome back one of my absolute favorite people on the planet, Sally Jane Douglas, for her third appearance on the show! 

Sally is a beacon of love in my life, and I’m thrilled that I get to share her incredible wisdom and warmth with all of you once again.

In this episode, we dive deep into the essence of true friendship. Press play to hear: how to navigate conflicts and disagreements, how to maintain friendships through the different phases of life, our secrets to nurturing and sustaining a deep connection even if you live thousands of miles apart or are on separate paths, how to spot a true friend, the impact of motherhood on friendships, the fundamental pillar of all relationships, and how to proactively be the best friend on the planet.

Tune in for a conversation filled with heartfelt stories, practical tips, and the kind of inspiration that will make you want to reach out to your best friends and let them know how much they mean to you. Trust me, you don’t want to miss this one!

About Sally Jane Douglas

Sally Jane Douglas is the wing woman we all need in our corner! As a relationship mentor and speaker, Sally specialises in helping women who feel like their clock is ticking to find love. With 17 years of experience, she teaches her unique dating method that fast-tracks your dating game, allowing you to connect with aligned people while staying true to yourself and avoiding the all too familiar swipe exhaustion! Sally’s expertise and empathetic approach make her a trusted guide, inspiring women to confidently navigate their dating journey, leading them to discover deep, fulfilling relationships.

In this episode we chat about:

• The big changes in her life since she was last on the show (02:30)
• Her unique and highly effective approach to coaching (04:16)
• How to navigate ups and downs in friendships and relationships (09:14)
• The fundamental pillar of any relationship (12:18)
• The crucial importance of crystal clear communication (19:23)
• Why we were so drawn to each other from the moment we met (24:21)
• The surprising signs that can help you spot a true friend (26:20)
• How to keep nurturing friendships even when your life phases are very different (29:33)
• A conscious approach to addressing conflicts and disagreements (37:36)
• Why motherhood does NOT spell the end of beautiful, fulfilling friendships (45:43)
• Strategies to nurture your best friends and deepen your connections (51:00)
• The green flags that indicate someone is genuinely trustworthy (54:01)
• How to fully embody your feminine energy — even when life gets hectic (01:00:41)
• Nurturing the #1 most important relationship in your life: the one with yourself! (01:04:54)

Episode resources:

• SheLaunch (join here)
• Mastering Your Mean Girl by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Open Wide by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Comparisonitis by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Time Magic by Melissa Ambrosini and Nick Broadhurst (book)
• The Wholy Mama Journal (get it here)
• My Near-Death Experience with Melissa & Nick (podcast)
• How To Call In More Friends, How To Be A Better Friend with Sally Jane Douglas & Tamsyn Neill (podcast)
• How To Move Past Conflict & Have Courageous Conversations with Sally Jane Douglas & Tamsyn Neill (podcast)
• Conversations With God And Neale Donald Walsch (podcast)
• Conversations With God: An Uncommon Dialogue by Neale Donald Walsch (book)
• Join the LOVER Waitlist (website)
• Sally’s Weekly Love Notes (newsletter)
• Sally Jane Douglas (Instagram)
• Salle Jane Douglas (website)

Prefer To Read?

The following transcript has been automatically generated and not checked for accuracy.

Melissa: [00:00:00] In episode 603 with one of my best friends, Sally Jane Douglas, we are diving deep into all things relationships. How to have better, deeper, more meaningful, conscious relationships, especially friendships, and how to be a better partner and friend. Plus so much more. This is Juicy. Get ready to take notes.

The Melissa Ambrosini Show. Welcome to the Melissa Ambrosini Show. I’m your host, Melissa bestselling author of Mastering Your Mean Girl, open Wide, comparisonitis and Time Magic, and I’m here to remind you that love. Healthy is liberating and wealthy. Isn’t a dirty word each week. I’ll be getting up close and personal with thought leaders from 

around the globe, 

as well as your weekly dose of motivation so that you can create Epic change in your own life and become the best version of yourself possible.

Are you ready? Beautiful. [00:01:00] Hey, beautiful. And welcome back to the show. I am so excited about this episode because. Is there anything better than sitting down with one of your best friends uninterrupted and chatting? I mean, seriously, that is soul medicine right there. And for those of you that have never heard of Sally, she is the wing woman we all need in our corner.

As a relationship mentor and speaker, she specializes in helping women who feel like their clock is ticking to find love. With 17 years of experience in this space, She teaches her unique dating method that fast tracks your dating game, allowing you to connect with aligned people. While staying true to yourself and avoiding the all too familiar swipe exhaustion, her expertise and empathic approach make her a trusted guide, inspiring women to confidently navigate their dating journey, leading them to discover deep, fulfilling relationships.

And for everything that we mentioned in today’s episode, you can check out in the show notes and that’s over at [00:02:00] melissarambrosini. com forward slash 603. And now without further ado, let’s bring back on. My beautiful soul sister, Sally Jane Douglas.

What a treat. I have Sally Jane Douglas in the 

house. One of my bestest soul sisters is back on the podcast and I am so excited. So excited now you were last on the show for episode four, four, six, and four, four, seven, which I will link to in the show notes, go and check out those episodes. They are amazing, but so much has happened since then.

Give us an update. What’s been going on. What’s 

Sally: new and good go. Thank you for having me back. And yes, so much has changed last time, which was like forever ago. I was living here on the Sunshine Coast. Now I’ve moved back to Melbourne, which I didn’t approve. It was not approved. [00:03:00] It’s still not approved. So not approved, not happy about called my pretend house.

It is. She’s just like acting for a while and yeah, it was a guess a significant transition, but a really great one. And it. It’s really brought a lot of inspiration and new things into my world. Like I’m back modeling after two decades of not modeling, which I never thought I would get back into again.

But so fun. And that brings like new challenge, like just exploring it in such a different way. Now I’m 20 years older and I am starting keynote speaking and all of these types of things. Building my podcast, which is coming one day soon. So yeah, just lots of creation and also launching a new program called Lover, which is for women who really feel like the clock is ticking to find love.

So that’s what’s lighting me up right now. And I’m so excited. 

Melissa: So good. So good. And we’ve spoken about this many times before. about when you go to a big city or when you move cities, like how that inspiration just [00:04:00] comes. And I think that’s one of the beautiful things about traveling and about moving around.

And I’m so craving that. But for this season in my life, I’m okay to just be here for a little bit, but the thought of traveling around the world and things like that, yes, I’m so excited. And Lovah, your amazing new program, which is so amazing. Okay, so she’s not just one of my best friends, but she is one of the best coaches that is on the planet.

And I’m not just saying that lightly, like I get her in my pocket. I have her on speed dial to coach me through things, not necessarily relationship things, but anything. And the way that you coach women is so beautiful because I’ve had so many different coaches and mentors in my life. And a lot of them will tell you what you’re experiencing.

A lot of them don’t really give you practical ways to move through it. And that’s not how you work. And one of the things I love about the way you coach is you. [00:05:00] Always show both sides and you help the client see and come to the realization and the aha moment themselves without telling them what they’re experiencing, even though you can see clearly what they’re going through.

And so that’s one of the reasons why I love going to you for whatever’s going on for me and why so many women have come to you and said, Sally, please help me with finding the love of my life when I’m maybe older in life. And I feel like my clock is ticking and. You know, you have people saying this to you all the time, like how much your work has just transformed their life.

And I’m not just saying this, guys, because she’s sitting next to me and she’s my bestie, but like, it’s seriously so powerful the way that you coach. So how did you come up with your methodology? 

Sally: Well, thank you. And yes, this isn’t the first time I’ve heard this, so I know she’s not lying. But I’ve worked in this field with women’s empowerment.

with women for nearly 17 years. So I kind of know what I’m [00:06:00] doing. And yeah, it is this loving, nurturing, offering different perspectives approach that I know that you value and lots of people that I work with value as well, because we don’t want to be told what to do. And that is disempowering. I can’t empower anybody, but I can ask the right questions for you to empower yourself through that engagement with me.

So it’s like a facilitator. There’s no advising and directing and telling. I always say, I don’t know better than anybody else. So, A lot of this has come from, I guess I said my 17 years experience, but also through my life and my experience, my personal lived experience. I’ve had a very colorful life with relationships, life in general, just everything.

I’ve lived overseas, worked overseas, done, you know, all the things. And that brings a richness and a depth to my work. And as I said, through life experience, like in my human design, I am designed to trial and error and go out and learn for myself, learn the hard way maybe, and then come [00:07:00] back and teach that.

And that’s exactly what I do in all my programs and specifically in Lover, because like I said, there’s so many relationship dynamics and lessons that I’ve learned and how to really cultivate a intimate, connected, aligned relationship. everybody dreams of and then thinks, Oh, maybe it’s too late or maybe it’s not possible for me.

And it is, I’m here to say it absolutely is. 

Melissa: Well, she is my go to girl whenever Nick and I are going through something and you’re also the go to girl for Nick, you know, and he comes to you when he’s experiencing something with me and I go to you and never once have you said anything bad about Nick or you’ve ever put Nick down or you’ve ever said, Oh yeah, he’s an idiot or whatever.

Like you’ve never done that. And that’s the different perspectives that I love that you offer. Another thing that I love about you is how embodied you are with your teachings. And I know you’re embodied because I live with you. Like, quite literally. Literally, she’s living with us at the moment, which is the best fun ever.

[00:08:00] And when you live with someone, you see how they live their life, how they move through challenges, and you are the embodiment of what you teach. I know that that’s not the case for a lot of coaches. And this is not a judgment. This is just an observation that a lot of people are not embodying what they’re teaching.

And you can feel that from facilitators. You can really feel it. And that’s another reason why I trust you. Why I go to you is because I know you live these principles. I know you practice crystal clear communication. I know that you do these things because I see you every day. And so that’s another thing that I love about you and your work is you are practicing everything that you teach your clients, which I love.

Sally: I think that’s so important. Cause like you said, there are a lot of people who aren’t doing that and that’s an approach. It’s just not my approach and it doesn’t feel aligned. Like integrity is one of my highest values. So to know what I’m talking about. in my body, not knowing my mind, not read a book and then go and regurgitate that to [00:09:00] somebody.

You can feel it as well. You know, I think we’re in an age, in a year, in a decade that we’re craving authenticity and realness and vulnerability. That’s me in a nutshell for sure. Yeah, 

Melissa: absolutely. And I can testify to that. So when I told my audience that you were coming on, they sent a whole bunch of questions in wanting to know more about relationships, friendships.

So I thought we would go through and we could answer some of these questions and get your perspective and my perspective and just have a little bit of fun. All right, let’s go from the top. First question. How do you navigate ups and downs in friendships? Well, 

Sally: I think with all relationships, like when we talk about friendships, It’s relationships across the board, whether it’s with a friend, a lover, a family member.

Relationships have the same dynamics and the same challenges that can come up with ups and downs, like specifically ups and downs. So I think to expect that that can happen and that we’re two, if we’re talking about two people, we’re two different people. Right. So you’re living your [00:10:00] life. I’m living mine.

And yes, we’re intertwined in relationship. And so being able to support somebody when they’re going through something or when there is a lull or letting someone know, you know, I think we’ve both done this before and like, Hey, I’m just going through something. I’m going to like pull away a little bit and have a little retreat, but check in with me in four days or whatever it may be.

And that can be like a personal up and down. I mean, navigating things, there’s more questions on that, of navigating like disagreements and things, but we can touch on that later. But what would you say? Yeah, 

Melissa: I think what you said, expecting it is really important because I think people have this unconscious idea that it should be perfect.

The perfect marriage, the perfect friendship with no ups and downs. That’s delusion. It is insanity to even think. That it’s going to be all rainbows and butterflies with your children, with your parents. I’ve got full goosebumps with your partner, with your friends. Like it is absolute delusion. Like you said, you have your own life.

I have my own life. I have my own traumas. [00:11:00] You have your own traumas. We have our own wounds. And of course there’s going to be ups and downs. So I think the first step, like you said, is expecting it to be like that. Not in like, Oh, I’m waiting for something bad to happen, but just to go, okay, this is part of evolution in our relationship.

Right. And then I think, knowing how to navigate, having the tools in your toolkit to navigate those downs. What do you do? What do you pull on? What’s your immediate reaction? Is it avoidance? Is it, okay, let’s have a conversation. And look, I don’t know anyone on this earth who loves hard conversations. If you do, can you let me know?

Cause I’ll have you on the podcast. I don’t know anyone who’s like, yes, I’m I love tough, challenging, really hard, confrontational conversations. I don’t know anyone, they’re hard, they’re uncomfortable, they’re stretching, but we need to have them because that’s how the relationship grows and that’s how we grow.

And if we constantly live our life avoiding [00:12:00] them, you’re going to end up just pushing everybody away and you just cycle through friendships or cycle through men. So I think. Having the tools is really important to navigate those downs and expecting that life is not rainbows and butterflies the whole time.

100%. So that’s what I’d say on that one. Okay. Next question. What do you think is at the core of your friendship? Similar values, life experience, et cetera. What do you think? 

Sally: Oh, I feel we have similar core values, maybe not exactly the same and they don’t have to be. Health and wellness and that way of living is definitely a core value of ours.

And like you said, relationships, like I don’t just say relationships is a value of mine, I say connected relationships. And knowing that there are those ups and downs and it’s in the repair that you create deeper intimacy and connection, right? It can feel like you’re being pulled away or this is hard and you want to lean out.

Yet when we lean in and we have that [00:13:00] vulnerable, scary, what we think is going to be confrontational conversation, it doesn’t need to be that way at all. When we know the tools and the skills to be able to have those conversations and then we create deep intimacy. And I know that’s a value of ours and we want that.

So we always go head first into anything. So I feel like they’re the top values I would say we align with. 

Melissa: Yeah, 100%. Definitely core values. And also, I think both of us have such a deep respect for each other. And I think respect is such a key piece in all relationships. I remember on my wedding day, I had five women come up to me and whisper into my ear the secrets to happy marriage.

So five women that I loved and admired their marriage. So I had like my mom, Nick’s mom, my nonna, Rach, one of our mutual besties and another one of my friends. And they came up and they whispered, and I saw this tradition in an Indian wedding. And I thought it was so beautiful that I was like, I want to do that.

And one of the things that Nick’s mom said to me was respect each other, [00:14:00] because when there is respect, you can always come to a mutual ground. But if you don’t respect each other, then that starts to erode the relationship. And I think with you and I, we respect each other so much, like the way that we live, the inner wounds that we might have, and we hold space for each other.

And I think we’re both really good at communicating, you know, we’re both really good communicators. We’ve not necessarily been through similar life experiences, like we’ve had completely different lives, but there’s similar values. And there’s respect and we both value deep crystal clear communication relationships.

And when you both value that you can meet each other there. And I think, yeah, your definition of a good friendship is very similar to my definition. So yeah, we can meet each other on that level. same plane. Yeah. So I think the core values is 

Sally: really important. Yeah. And I would add to that around the respect that when we have that [00:15:00] crystal clear communication, because we respect each other and ourselves, then we don’t build resentments because resentments are like the death of relationships.

Any relationship. If I don’t speak something to you, it’s It’s bothering me, it’s bubbling within me, I’ve bottled it up. It’s gonna come out in little maybe passive aggressive things or I’m gonna distance myself or something. So, I mean, it doesn’t happen very often, but if it ever needs to, we just voice it.

Melissa: Straight away. Straight 

Sally: away. Done. And it’s like, just done. 

Melissa: Yeah. From a loving place. I think that’s another thing that we do really well is like we can do it from a loving place. And that’s key. That is key. We express, Oh, that hurt my feelings or whatever it is, and we can do it from a loving place. Like you said, anytime there is resentment, it builds and builds and builds, and it’s going to explode like a volcano.

And a lot of us have been modeled, sweep things under the carpet, avoid. My parents did it. I’m sure [00:16:00] lots of people listening have witnessed their parents do that, and that’s what they have seen their whole life. And that’s okay that that’s what you saw, but you now have a choice. Do I want to do that? And do I want to model that for my children or do I want to model healthy conflict resolution and repair with my children?

I will always apologize to Bambi. If I have maybe raised my voice in a way that I don’t want to, that’s not true for me, I will always come around and say, I’m so sorry for how I said that to you. Or when you did that and I said, Bambi, don’t or whatever, like that just shocked mommy that gave me a fright, you know, things like that.

And I think the more we can repair with our children, with our romantic partners, with our friends, the better and the deeper you’re going to go. Like, I don’t want these shallow relationships. I want deep. I want to know what’s going on in your life and how I can support you and just not swim in the shallow end.

Sally: Yeah. Speaking up and saying even minor things where you think it’s [00:17:00] not really a big deal. Just say, Oh, when you said that, that upset me. Or if we are the ones that say something and you’re like, I’m really sorry. I’m so tired and grumpy at X somebody else. And I just took that on you. Sorry, babe. And then move on.

It’s not like, well, that’s really not okay and we sit and have a conversation. No, it’s just an acknowledgement that we’re humans and we have different things going on for each other and we acknowledge it with respect and love and move on. And the thing is, nobody’s 

Melissa: perfect. I am not a perfect human, you’re not a perfect human.

No one is right or wrong as well. And I think that’s really key in relationships is not making your partner wrong and you right or your friend wrong, your child. There is no right or wrong. There is Sally’s experience. There is my experience. My experience is not right or wrong. Sally’s is not right or wrong.

It’s like she’s having her own experience. I’m having my own experience. How can we see each other’s side? and just have compassion. I think it’s Dr. John Demartini. He [00:18:00] says, see the other side. He’s like, when you are in conflict, you’re not seeing the other side. You’re not seeing Nick’s perspective or Sally’s perspective on things.

And that doesn’t mean you’re condoning. What they did, you’re just not seeing it. So can you see it? And then it will make you soften and you can still have your experience, but it just makes you soften. 

Sally: Yeah. And you can help guide that if you’re noticing, okay, we’re in battle backwards and forwards and you’re on your ship and I’m on my ship and we’re fighting to be right.

Because that’s often what conflict is, fighting to be right. As a little tip in communication with your partner, with your friend, whoever, when you’re noticing that you don’t have to call it out and be like, you’re trying to make me wrong. Cause that’s probably just going to make them more defensive. So what we can say is, okay, I’m noticing that this is your experience and that’s how you felt.

I can understand, I can see how you would feel that way. That makes all the sense to me. And I would never want to make you feel that way. And so can I share with you how I experienced that and my perspective of that? Because then [00:19:00] they’re like, Oh, okay, they understand me. When we feel misunderstood, especially as females, it is so, you know, we just speak louder as if it’s like, maybe if I speak louder, they’ll get it.

You’ll get it. No, it’s not about that. But that’s why we do that. We don’t feel heard. We don’t feel understood. We feel invisible. We don’t feel seen. And it’s the most painful thing. Most painful thing. So that’s a little communication tip. Yeah, I 

Melissa: love that. Beautiful. How do you maintain your friendship?

What does watering your 

Sally: friendship look like? Mm hmm. I think we’re really good at this. We check in a lot. We’re in communication a lot. Yeah, we speak every day. Yeah. Multiple times a day. 

Melissa: We’re not saying you have to do that, but we do. Yeah. 

Sally: Yeah. And that’s another part of it is knowing what type of friendship you want.

Is it, do you both want to show up in that way or not? And that gets to be determined by the both of you, whoever in that relationship, even long distance, intimate relationships. You need to know if you’re going to be long distance, do we speak every day? Do we speak every second day? Because you don’t want to be the one wanting to speak every day and then waiting [00:20:00] and then thinking, why don’t they, why haven’t they called me today?

Right? So this is a lot of what I teach in Lover about Setting up communication boundaries, setting up boundaries, expectations, standards, all of these things, because this is where everything kind of falls apart. So we check in every day, we communicate nearly every day. If one of us isn’t feeling it that day or we’re full, we know that that’s the thing.

It’s not like, Oh no, she’s upset at me. we know that that’s what’s going on and we celebrate each other. That’s the biggest thing we love on and celebrate each other all the time. So I think that’s very nourishing. It’s fertilized, not just water. Yeah, 

Melissa: absolutely. Yeah. And just to add to that, I don’t want people to think to have a beautiful relationship.

They have to communicate every single day. This is where you can practice crystal clear communication and you can kind of work out what is the cadence that we speak and you kind of feel it out. Anyway, you use your intuition. You kind of know, like, I have friends that I don’t speak to all the time. And then I have friends that I do, like you.

And there’s literally no [00:21:00] right or wrong. It’s just what feels good and right for you. And knowing each other so deeply, and I think trusting each other and being vulnerable with each other, And that gets built over time, you know, you’d kind of don’t just dive right into that, but that trust, like I know you so well that I know if you go quiet for two days, it’s not personal.

However, there are some other people in my life where if they went quiet, I’d be like, Oh, Have I done something wrong? Which is for me to look at, why do I feel like that? But also you want to have these relationships where there’s just so much trust and vulnerability that you know, that if someone has gone off or you’re at that point where you can communicate with each other, Hey, I’m going through this, I’m checking out for a little while.

I’m not going to be on my phone as much. Just so you know, I love you. Nothing personal. And we have friends that have done that to us and that’s great. And we’ve done that to people too. So I think crystal clear communication and same with your partner. Like when Nick goes away, we [00:22:00] don’t talk that much.

And people must think that’s so crazy. Like we literally go days without talking. And the reason being is I just want him to be present. He went to Italy last year for three weeks. We probably spoke maybe twice. I just want him to enjoy himself and to be present and to not have to like go, Oh, I’ve got to go FaceTime my wife.

You know, I just want him to be present and enjoy. And same with me. Like, I don’t want to be on my phone. And especially with Bambi, like I don’t want to be on my phone. So work out your communication cadence and what feels good. And if you’re like, That needier one that’s wanting more, also look at why, like, is there an insecurity coming up?

Why are you needing more of that? That’s also something that you can look at too. But I think doing what feels right for that relationship is What we’ve got to do. And every relationship is different. 

Sally: Yeah. And bringing that up like, Oh, I’m feeling like I need more from you and I’m not asking for more from you, but I just want to let you know that this seems to be something coming up for me.

Like we, we talk about those things, even if they’re [00:23:00] not even to do with each other. We talk about things that have come, Oh, I’ve recognized this about myself and I’m learning this about myself. And that’s creating intimacy within our friendship. That’s nurturing our friendship. Like, Oh, Sally, trust me enough that she’s coming to me about this.

She’s voicing this to me and vice versa. That is creating more intimacy between us. 

Melissa: Yeah, a hundred percent. I’m like, I’ve shared things with you that are so vulnerable for me that I have not shared with anyone else or, you know, maybe Nick and a therapist. And I’ve shared things with you like about growing up and things like that.

And that feel very scary for me. And you’re just like, Yeah, me too. And I’m like, wow, okay. That felt so scary. And I thought she was going to like dump me over that or turn the other way, but she held that. And again, that’s something that gets built over time. Like we’ve been such good friends now for five years and consistently.

And that’s a big thing. Like consistently five years, we’ve not had a time where we’ve gone on a break. You know? Do you know what I mean? Like we’ve [00:24:00] been consistent in each other’s lives. We’ve been through so much. We’ve been through grief, deaths, births, breakups. We’ve been through so much together and the more you can open up and be vulnerable and share from your heart to someone who feels safe and can hold that, the deeper the relationship goes.

Yep. That’s it. Love it. Okay. What was it about one another that drew you close to wanting a friendship? Yeah. 

Sally: We met at an event that I was running. I was speaking on the panel. Well, mediating? What do we call that? 

Melissa: Emceeing? Emceeing the panel. Emceeing the panel at a beautiful female 

Sally: event. 

Melissa: It was so gorgeous.

It was. It 

Sally: was so lovely. And. Yeah, I think we just, we were sitting opposite ends and we would just vibe, I feel like we could just feel each other and like the shininess and the brightness of each other. And that was like radiating. I really am drawn into someone’s heart, someone’s brightness, someone’s beauty on the inside and out, [00:25:00] obviously.

And I think that was initially where we’re like, 

Melissa: yeah, yeah. I’m sitting on a panel with a few other women, Sally’s emceeing, and she just has such a beautiful, amazing energy. And as soon as like you started talking, I was like, we’re going to be friends. We’re going to be friends. And then I left and Sally, we always joke about this.

She chased me into the car park and just said, I just wanted to say thank you so much for coming. And it was so beautiful. And I just thought, Oh, she’s a real goody. She’s a really good human. And that was the start of our friendship. And we just stayed in touch. And, yeah, it’s been such a beautiful evolution and you are such a part of my life, like you live with us at the moment, you are not only my best friend, but you’re Nick’s best friend and you and Nick are so close and you and Bambi are so close, like, it’s so beautiful.

Bambi loves you. She calls her auntie and she’s just obsessed with auntie Sally, absolutely obsessed with her. So yeah, you’re such a big part of our life. And [00:26:00] I think there’s something so beautiful about time together, like intimate time, because it allows you to go deeper. It really does. So yeah, that’s what drew me to you.

Just your heart, your openness, your vulnerability, your willingness. All of those things, definitely. Your playfulness, your laugh. They’re the best! Okay, what do you bring out in each other? And what are the three things that you go to each other for? 

Sally: Mmm. I definitely think we bring out the playfulness and the kid like, we’re like doing funny dances for Bambi and just laughing and just being silly.

Like playfulness, like so fun. I come to you and you bring out more of me. realizing my worth even more. You know, when I forget, I go to Melissa. When I’m like, Oh, I’m not sure I’m wobbly. I’ve forgotten. And I know when I’ve forgotten, cause I know it’s inherent, but I’ve forgotten or I’ve dropped it. Like help me pick it up.

And that’s definitely something I come to you for. We bring out in each other more truth and realness and [00:27:00] authenticity. I think we see that in each other and we mirror that back to each other and how beautiful it is in our rawness, in our truth, in our, Vulnerability. And I feel like that inspires each other.

I also come to you to celebrate because I know that you want to celebrate me and I know that you will celebrate me and vice versa. Obviously you’ll come to me for the same thing. So yeah, there are a couple of things. 

Melissa: Yeah. For me, what are the three things I go to you for? Everything. I do. I go to you when I’m having relationship stuff.

I go to you for anything and everything. Friendship stuff, relationship stuff, parenting stuff. Yeah. There’s nothing that I don’t feel like I can come to you with. And what do we bring out in each other? Definitely the best in each other. We really do.

Yes. The playfulness, but truly you make me be a better person. You do. You make me be a better mum. You make me be a better wife. And it’s not necessarily anything you even do or say. It’s just by you [00:28:00] being you and being in your presence, you make me want to be the best version of myself. And isn’t that what friends should do?

Inspire. Inspire. Isn’t that what all relationships should do? Imagine if every single person in your life brought out the absolute best in you. And I know everyone has people that they can think of in their life right now where you leave that relationship, or you leave that interaction, and you don’t feel like the best you.

You feel contracted, maybe you were gossiping, maybe you weren’t acting as your best self. I know those relationships. Definitely. Like I don’t feel good. Like I feel icky, but then there’s people like you where like you literally make me want to be a better mom, a better wife, you know, all of those things squeeze the most juice out of life.

So yeah, you bring out the best in me in all areas. Like truly, I’m not just saying that, like you really do. And having you here is like such good accountability. It really is. You hold me accountable. If there’s a moment where I’m like, Oh, just feeling like a [00:29:00] bit crappy or whatever, you just kind of pull me out of that by not even doing anything and not even saying anything just by being you.

They’re the 

Sally: relationships you want. I 

Melissa: know. Can I have more of those? 

Sally: To feel inspired and to feel like being your best and that you want to grow and evolve and you’re like, Oh yes, I want to be, oh yes, oh yes. Yeah, I’m all about this. Intimate and friendship. Like, they’re the relationships that we want. 100%.

Yeah. And Nick even says it too. He’s like, 

Melissa: we’re different when Sally’s here. In a good way. It’s beautiful. It’s so nice. So you can stay. You can stay. Okay. How do you nurture friendships with one mama and one friend? To become a mama. 

Sally: I think we do that again. I feel we do that really well. And it’s acknowledging and seeing, like I’m observant in my relationships.

I can tell when things are shifting. Like obviously when you had Bambi, things shifted because she became the center of your world. And rightly so. And so all of your relationships would have shifted, I’m sure. And so it’s [00:30:00] like, okay, either I would ask, like, how can I best support you? How can I best Show up for you.

And what do you need? And then, like I said, I’m very observant. And I think this is a very key skill in a relationship to be able to observe and notice and see what is received really well by other people. And then doing more of that or just directly asking either one. But both of these skills are really key.

And again, what I teach in Lover, because as I said, everything that applies to a friendship replies to an intimate relationship. And so I noticed, okay, this is now maybe the way you’re living, the routine you’ve got when Bambi’s sleeping, those types of things. And then I would show up for you in different ways, modify a little bit and also know, okay, If you’re really tired or if whatever’s happening, then there might be a little bit more distance.

And now she’s older. When I’m living here, it’s like there’s three parents. I know. It’s so good. It’s so good. And I love that. I get to auntie her. I get [00:31:00] to Be there for her. I get to play with her. I love that I get to be involved in her life and that you want me to have a key role in her life, right? I’m not parenting.

We know that the lines there and the definition of that, but I am being that nurturing, loving support. And that’s what, you know, an auntie is and that inspires me as well. So for as long as I can remember, I’ve always observed parents. to learn tips and tricks of how to be the best parent when I’m a parent.

And like you said, you come to me for parenting advice and all of my clients do as well. And I am not a parent yet. I always have really great perspectives and ideas because I’m outside a little bit. I can go, Oh, maybe this, Oh, I can see that this maybe is happening. I always say I could be wrong. This is just what maybe I’m seeing.

This is what I’m noticing. And you’re like, yep. Oh no, not that. It’s definitely this. Like, oh no, she’s teething. Oh, okay, cool. I didn’t know that. Right. I’m not mama. So those things definitely support us. And yeah, it’s, it’s only been better [00:32:00] because now we have another little human to love and she’s like the best.

Melissa: So cute. But I think that kind of is testament to you as well. Like you have the emotional intelligence and the emotional awareness to observe and to notice shifts. And not everybody is at that place, but I just want everyone to kind of tune in for a minute and think about your friendships and think about the different phases that people go through with having kids and then their second and then their third.

And then their dog dies and then they get divorced, you know, all these different things, these monumental life changing events that people go through. And instead of taking it personally, how can you go back to what we’re saying before? See their side. And go, wow, this actually is not personal. Sally’s just going through this.

Well, Melissa’s just had a baby. And I think when we take ourselves [00:33:00] out of the equation, it’s so much better for everybody. It’s so much better. Like take, this is personal out of the equation. You know, one of my best friends, Katie, she has three little girls, three. She takes sometimes like four weeks to write back to me.

I do not take it personally. Genuinely don’t take it personally. And so when I went and stayed with her recently, cause sometimes we go have a sleepover there and it’s so much fun and Bambi and the girls just love each other. And we just have the best time. We were talking about friendships and she said, Oh, I really need to be a better friend to you.

And I said, no, you don’t. I said, you’re an amazing friend to me. She goes, but I take so long to write back. And I was like, you can take longer. You can actually take longer. You have three tiny humans. I get it. I have one. I get it, babe. So in that moment, I’m doing what you’re doing. I can see and I don’t take it personally, but that’s because we’ve got so much trust in that friendship, you know, and we’ve built that.

We’ve been friends since we were 13 years old. So there’s so much trust [00:34:00] there and there’s so much love and there’s so much history and I’ve taken myself out of it. And yeah, I could have turned that around and be like, I’m dumping her. She takes four weeks to write back to me. But I don’t. I genuinely am like, she’s got three tiny humans.

I’ve been in a house, I’ve stayed in a house. I know what that’s like to get three bodies ready in the morning and yourself. It’s a lot. So I think, yeah, that’s such a beautiful thing is to like, see what other people are going through and how can you support them? Put yourself in their shoes. When I went through grief, or when I had my first child, I remember it was like this.

And then also, for that person who is going through it, sometimes you might not even remember to communicate, but if you can communicate, hey, I’m going through a really challenging time, or I’m really struggling with this, that kind of just puts that friend at ease as well and reminds them that it’s not personal.

We have had another friend who’s been going through a big thing at the moment. And she said to us, this is not [00:35:00] personal. This is like, I’m just going through this. And, you know, she sent me a message yesterday and she was like, 

Sally: I’m out of the darkness and I am here and I’m ready to be social. And I’m like, let’s do it, you know?

Yeah. And she shared that with us, right. When she was going through that. And when I moved to Melbourne a year ago now, and I was going through a lot with my family. I requested, cause we all. In our friendship circle, we all voice message. And I requested to each of you, can you please text instead of voice message during this time?

Because when I see a three minute voice message, it overwhelms me. Like I, I want to stay connected with you. I don’t want to just hide away, but I am going to be like so busy with dad and sorting everything out. And so I just want to be able to read it and be like, yep, it’s love. It’s no, don’t ask me questions.

Just send me something, but please don’t ask me questions and please don’t send me a voice message. I was really clear. So you knew exactly how to support me during that time. And everyone did. Everyone’s like, of course, of course, so easy. And 

Melissa: this is really important [00:36:00] to highlight that you do ask for what you need in your friendships and in your romantic relationships.

There’s nothing wrong with saying, Hey, I really 

Sally: need a little bit extra love right now. 

Melissa: Like it’s not coming from a needy place. I really need some quality time with you. I’d love some quality time with you. So think about your friendships. What do you need? How do you ideally want people to show up for you?

And same with your romantic relationships. What do you need in that right now? Like, I definitely need more quality time with Nick. Definitely. And so just before this, I interviewed John Wineland. He had some great ideas, which I had thought about, but it’s never done. And he was talking about temple nights at home.

And I’ve had another amazing Tantra coach share this with Nick and I, you know, everyone’s like, focus on the date nights, go out on a date night and get dressed up. And then you sit there and you’re not really even intimate. You’re not even physically touching. And John was saying, set up at least once a week, a temple night, put [00:37:00] the kids to bed, dim lighting, candles, music, rugs.

And it’s just your time. Start with massage, you know, those sorts of things. And I’ve literally been thinking about this for so long. And I’m like, must do this, must do this, must do this. And I’m really inspired after my conversation with him today. And it’s something that I’m going to do. And it’s something that I feel like I need and he needs right now, even if it’s just once a week, temple night at home, it’s 

Sally: free guys.

Just let me know when you do it and I’ll stay in my room. Yes. I’ll send you out. Go for dinner. Go 

Melissa: for dinner. Definitely. Okay. Next question. How do you navigate disagreements or conflicts with each other? 

Sally: Well, as we were saying, we confront things with love and confront doesn’t mean aggressive confront means face, right?

We turn up to it, we show up to it and we are direct in our communication. And I think that’s something that we both value is direct communication. We don’t need to sugarcoat wishy washy. We actually don’t really like that. We [00:38:00] express clearly. what it is that we’re upset about, we don’t like, we want more of, whatever it is, or we’ve noticed, or whatever that may be, and then we talk about it.

And that is how we navigate something. We don’t have to go and talk to other people, and then disappear, and then make it a big thing. It’s, I need to talk to you, I need to share something with you, I want to share something with you, and we talk about it. And then it doesn’t turn into a big disagreement or a big conflict.

It’s expressing how we’re feeling and understanding. Like we were saying, seeing both perspectives, seeing another perspective, even that is exactly how we do it. And it’s never been a big deal. It’s never carried on. There’s never, there’s no resentment 

Melissa: and no residual, no residual. It’s just like done and move on.

And I think we both truly value honesty. And like you said, integrity and we both don’t like texting back and forth. Firstly, we don’t like texting at all. Our preference is [00:39:00] always voice message because you can hear someone’s tone and it’s so different to in a message. It’s completely different. If there’s anything I ever need to chat about, my first preference is always in person.

If that’s not possible, my second preference is on the phone. And if that’s really not possible, I’ll send a voice message, but there’s so much that can go missing because, you know, as John was just saying before we got on this podcast, I was interviewing him. So much of communication is non verbal. It’s in the body language, it’s in the tone of voice, it’s in the hand gestures, the eyes, the facial expressions.

And you don’t get that through a text message. You don’t see and feel someone’s energy. I think both you and I really value that in relationships. And so whenever anything has come up, we’re able to just quickly have a conversation and move past it. With as much ease and grace as possible and if you [00:40:00] can take that into your romantic relationship, how many times have you held on to resentment and gone to sleep angry?

That’s another thing Nick’s mum said to me on my wedding day, never go to bed angry. And she said, never leave the house angry. 

Sally: Yeah. And don’t have text arguments. 

Melissa: Oh my gosh. What are we? What are 

Sally: we? Text arguments. It’s impossible. Like you said, you can’t really hear someone’s tone. So you’re like, is that sarcastic?

Was that a jab? Is that them being vulnerable? Is that being mean? Are they like, it’s so confusing. And this is where miscommunication happens. And that’s where most challenges arise. In relationship, any relationship. And if you are with somebody that is moving, is pulling away and going into text, that needs to be an agreement.

We don’t text in our arguments. Yeah. Nick and I have never ever text argued ever. I’ve done it in past relationships, not by my choice. I’ve tried to be like, okay, we’re going to meet, we’re going to talk. And it’s like, I can’t [00:41:00] be in relationship with you. Like that was, that was a clear deal breaker. If this is how we’re going to navigate.

No, no, thank you. No, it’s impossible. 

Melissa: It is. It was. Exactly. I can still remember. I’m like, oh God. But that’s amazing of you to have that awareness to go, this is actually not what I want and to end that relationship because that’s not what you want. You shared that with that person and that person wasn’t able to meet you there.

That’s how they communicate is through text. And you were like, okay, that’s a deal breaker for me. Like if you can’t have a crystal clear conversation with me, then this is going to be a long road. I’m not signing up for that. A long road. But yeah, like Nick and I have never done that. The only text, like if you look through my phone, like I love you so much.

Like, and it’s often when he goes out, so I may get one from him, you know, he’s just left the house. I may get one from him. Like it’s often when he leaves or when I leave, we have a moment to ourselves and we go, I love you [00:42:00] so much. I’m so grateful for you or whatever it is. That’s the majority of our text messages.

We just say things when they come up and I think that’s so important. And so get clear on the type of communication you want in your friendships and in your romantic relationships. 

Sally: Yes. This is where standards come in. This is where knowing and boundaries and boundaries and deal breakers. And this is what so many women that keep telling me, I don’t know, I don’t really know, or I don’t know how to speak that boundary.

I don’t know how to live by that. And the boundaries get bulldozed. And this is again, what we cover in Love Up because if you can’t uphold what you truly want, you’re going to get what you don’t. And we teach people how to treat us. And if we’re allowing something because like, Oh, well, maybe it’s going to be too late and I’m running out of time.

You know, women, thirties and forties. That’s I know that’s what goes through our mind. I get it. I totally hear you. And. We need to be a stand for what we want and what we don’t want. And then we get it. It exists. I have experienced it and I do experience it. [00:43:00] And we think, you know, we get into scarcity. Oh, I can’t really be like that.

And that will be too much and push them away. No, it will draw, it inspires. We want to inspire. Like I said, what’s the beautiful thing about relationship? We inspire each other. We inspire each other to be better. The same in romantic relationship and and in order to create that with each other. We have to be that and present that.

We can’t hide away and go, I hope they work it out. Or I don’t want to say it in case they run away. You’re not going to get what you want. 

Melissa: Yeah. A hundred percent. That fear of rejection that a lot of people experience and usually from childhood. So go there. If you have that fear of rejection, go there and look at that, heal that, become aware of that.

But a lot of the reasons why we don’t have these conversations. These more challenging conversations and express boundaries and express, Hey, this is what I need in this is because we’re so scared of feeling rejected by that person. But imagine if [00:44:00] you use this as a filter, like if someone can’t receive that, that’s a beautiful filter to go, okay, I’m going to let that go because there’s more space for another aligned relationship to come through.

And I think you and I have both been navigating. this so much this year, where we’ve always had so many beautiful friendships. And now as you get older and you add kids into the mix and careers and all this stuff, you literally don’t have as much time as you did in your twenties. You know, your whole life in your twenties revolves around your friends and partying and going out and things like that.

And so now it’s like, okay, I love myself so much that I know the type of relationships I want in my life. And I know how I want to feel in those. And I’m not settling for anything less in my friendship and in my partnership. I’m just not settling. Life is so [00:45:00] precious. It’s so sacred. We don’t know how long we’re here for.

It’s just not worth it to be in these, you know, relationships that are not aligned just because you’re scared of having the conversation. It’s just not worth it to me anymore. 

Sally: Yeah. And that’s what we want. We want aligned friendships. We want aligned intimate relationships and they are possible. You don’t have to hold on to, Oh, it’s kind of okay.

Or I kind of get watered or I kind of trust them. We don’t have to hold onto that. It’s possible. It really is. So hold up your standards, live by them. Own them, admit them and see what comes. 

Melissa: Yeah. 

Sally: And express them. Express them. Yeah. 

Melissa: How has your relationship changed since Bambi? Well, I kind of feel like we have already answered that, but is there anything else you want to add to that from your perspective?

Sally: Yeah. I get to see a new side of you. I obviously, I mean, I know you had Leo, but he wasn’t always here. So I didn’t see you all the time with Leo [00:46:00] and Bambi’s always here, gratefully. So I get to see this, your parent, the mother in you, and she’s the most beautiful, loving, patient, beyond patient, kind, present mother.

Like you really are. It’s so inspiring. Don’t make me cry! Bye! Bye! It’s so inspiring. Thank you so much. You are, and I love that. Like, I get to see more of you. I get to see more of you now. Yeah. So it’s just, and obviously she makes everything richer. 

Melissa: Yeah. Oh, thank you so much. It’s so nice to hear that because, well, you know, you’re just in it when you’re in it.

And like, I get to see that side of you too. Like, I get to see the godmama and the auntie and I get to see this whole other loving, nurturing, soft motherly. side of you too. And you’re like, beyond, beyond amazing at that role. Nick and I talk about it all the time. We’re just [00:47:00] so grateful that Bambi has you in her life.

And I hope that that just continues on, you know, cause I also think, It’s very important for children to have someone almost like a mentor for women, another woman, for men, another man, almost like a mentor that they can go to that’s not their parents. And I hope Bambi comes to me for everything. I hope she does.

And she feels like she can, but there may be, you know, a time in her teenage life where I don’t know, she might want to go to you and, you know, Express something. I don’t know. I don’t know, but I’ve seen this with my friends that have older children and they’ve always had like a masculine or a feminine figure outside of their parents to be almost like a rock for that child.

And whether it’s an auntie or a godparent or a friend. Just someone that you love and trust, and I love that you’ve been there from day one. Literally, Sally was the first person that met Bambi. Well, besides the midwives and the doula and, you know, the [00:48:00] photographer and things. But so we gave birth on a Saturday and Sally came over on a Sunday.

She was the first friend, family member. that got to meet her. And I remember it so clearly. We were all laying in the bed and you came into the bedroom and you were just like, Oh my god! I 

Sally: know. I was trying to be quiet. I’m not very good at being quiet when I’m excited and like overwhelmed. I was trying to be so quiet because she was sleeping.

So cute. I know. So cute. Yeah. 

Melissa: But yeah, like, if anything, it has just deepened our friendship. We’ve both seen sides of each other that we’ve never seen. That loving, nurturing, mothering archetype, which has just been so beautiful to watch and like, we love having you here. And we’re like, literally, like. Can she just live with us 

Sally: forever?

Melissa: Well, Bambi thinks you kind of do because she’s like, when you leave, she says you go on holidays and I’m like, it’s a holiday. She’ll be back. She says, when is she coming back? She goes, which day? Not that she knows [00:49:00] days. And I’m like Saturday. And she’ll be like, okay, Saturday. She has no idea what Saturday is.

So cute. Makes me feel very loved. Oh yeah. It’s beautiful. It’s so beautiful to witness you as that role. And. Yeah. To just watch yours and her relationship blossom. It’s so beautiful to witness. And you’re like I said, I’m just so grateful that she has other women in her life that love her so much like you do.

And Tiff, her nanny, like it’s just the more love the better. And something that my midwife actually said to me when I was pregnant with Bambi and stuff came up about my mum. And my parents and how, like, we don’t live in a fully aligned. We’re different. We have different ways of living and things like that.

And I remember saying, I want her to be influenced by our beliefs and our core values. And my midwife said, make sure you let other people love her. And I was like, Ooh, yeah, [00:50:00] let the aunties, let the uncles, let the grandparents, you make sure you, because there’s nothing that is more powerful than like tribal love from all these.

And it just hit me because it’s very easy to go, okay, well, I don’t want to see that person, that person, cause they don’t align or whatever. Let other people love your children because that’s just only gonna make them overflow. 

Sally: Yeah, and see how other people live. See different ways. That’s okay. Yeah, that’s beautiful and healthy.

Her to see all the different colorful ways that people can live and choose hers. Totally. 

Melissa: And even now, she already, she’s like, well, Nana does that. And I said, I know Nana does that, but we don’t do that here. Or like, you know, just little things like that. Like Nana leaves the light on or whatever she says.

I can’t even think of an example. And I’m like, Oh, well, we don’t do that, darling. You know, she’s already seeing at such a young age. And I do think that is really great. So overall it’s done nothing, but. Add a lot of love and value to our [00:51:00] relationship. Okay. Next question. How do you nourish your soul sister connections?

Sally: We kind of touched on it earlier and it is conversation, communication, conversation, quality time, quality 

Melissa: time. 

Sally: Yeah. So. Obviously, when I’m in Melbourne, I’m in Melbourne, but we stay in contact and we don’t let distance come in between us. And I think that’s important. We still nourish it and show up as if we’re around the corner.

Obviously, I 

Melissa: kind of feel like you are. I don’t even like, even though you are in Melbourne, I still feel like you’re around the corner. Like I don’t feel like you’re that far away. 

Sally: Yeah. So we don’t allow the distance to feel like distance. And I think that’s important, especially when you have long distance relationships, intimate or friendship.

So that’s a big one. And yeah, quality time. That’s a big one for our love languages. So that aligns, but that is, you know, sit down, connect, be in person with each other, just spend time sharing. Women love to sit [00:52:00] facing each other talking, right? That’s what we love. So that’s definitely, I think, the biggest way.

Melissa: Yeah, definitely. I think, yeah, from my perspective, how I nourish my connections is, yeah, quality time, crystal clear communication. They’re probably the two biggest and working out again for each relationship, what that looks like, what, like how often is quality time. And for us, like when you’re in Melbourne, it might be when Bambi goes to sleep, we have a conversation, you know, at 6.

30 or something like that. So yeah, what does that look like for each relationship? What does that quality time look like? And same with your romantic relationship. What does that look like? How many times a week? 

Sally: What is the cadence so that you’re both on the same page? Yeah. And it’s different for relationships.

You know, I’ve got friends in Melbourne and so how we show up for each other when I’m in Melbourne and then how we show up for each other when I’m here. And it’s different for each one and that comes from observing, expressing, and then meeting it, you know, showing up. [00:53:00] We’ve got to show up. You can’t have the water sitting beside the plant and not pour it on.

We can’t just know the thing. We’ve got to put it in there. We’ve got to pour it in. So. We’re good at that. 

Melissa: Yes, we are. And I heard a quote many, many years ago that stayed with me, and it’s the grass is greener where you water it. And if you want your grass to be lush and green and beautiful and thrive, then you’ve got to water it.

And that’s the same with relationships. If you want your relationships, your friendships, your romantic relationship to thrive, you have to water it. You have to. You just have to make the time. Otherwise, it is literally going to die. It’s going to die. And if you’re okay with that dissolving, then okay. But if you’re not, and you want to work for it, and you love it, and you want that relationship, then get watering.

And what does that look like? Yes, quality time. What is it? So important that we have the awareness around this. And yeah, like I said before, it’s different for every single relationship. And then you’ve got your kids too. You need to water that relationship. That’s another whole conversation. But yeah, I think they are the [00:54:00] core pillars of that.

Okay. Can you talk about the balance of self and sharing connection in soul aligned friendships? Yeah. 

Sally: So I feel we can be a little bit different in this. I am one who might need a little bit more space to reflect on things myself. I know about myself, and this is the thing we’ve got to know ourselves. I know that when I’m going through something, I’m I need space.

If I have too much influence from other people, even though it’s beautiful connection and conversation, I’m not really listening to myself. So I create that time for myself and I might be like, yep. Okay. I’m not going to respond to this or listen to this today because I’m in that space. And as you said, like, you know, if I do that for a day or two, it’s not personal.

It’s just how I nourish myself and be able to No. Okay. Now I can bring this to you. Now I know what’s moving and shaking for me in my world. And then I can bring this to you, whether I bring all of it, whether I bring part of it, I’m still like exploring [00:55:00] this part, but this part I’m getting clarity on, and then I’ll share that.

And if I want advice, I will say, Oh, what do you think? Yeah. What do you think? And can you help me with that? And we’re very clear in that where. So, I’m not able to say, I know if you just want me to listen or if you want my advice because you say it. So I think that’s key. 100 percent 

Melissa: And I think also being discerning about what you share with different friendships.

There’s like the inner circle, then there’s the outer circle and then there’s the outer Acquaintances, and there’s all different types of relationships. And so being mindful of like, okay, do I share everything with this person? Or do I only share this with that person? Like you kind of know what you share with each person, if that makes sense.

And so I think I do like to do that myself too. Like I stop, I pause, I reflect. I always like to come to the, some sort of resolution or answer within myself before I go to a mentor or before I go to you. And then if I’m like really confused, I’m like, okay, I need coaching on this. [00:56:00] What am I not seeing? And so I think this is just a very personal reflection on each individual relationship and what feels right for you, like how much feels good to share.

And I think as well, like trust is built. You share little things and that builds trust. And then you share another little thing and then that builds trust. And if someone, you don’t feel safe and if someone erodes that trust, like listen to it straight away, because if they usually erode it on something little, then it’s kind of a tell tale sign, I think 

Sally: anyway.

Yeah. And that’s one thing that I know with us and in my. Yeah, my intimate relationships, I know I can trust that person. I can go to them. I can share anything with you and it’s like a vault, right? And vice versa. And to know that, and if there’s no judgment, and it’s in the vault. Like that creates this container of safety, like I’m not going to go and tell someone vice versa that enables us to show up.

Melissa: What if someone wants that vault? How do [00:57:00] they get to that place? Is it as simple as depositing a little bit of trust and then seeing if they honor that, you know, even things like honoring your word. And saying, I’m going to be here at 10 o’clock. And if that person doesn’t show up at 10 o’clock, that erodes a little bit of trust.

And it’s not a big thing, but that is trust that’s kind of just been eroded 

Sally: a tiny bit. 

Melissa: So is that how we build it? 

Sally: Yes. Well, initially when we meet someone, like if we’re dating someone, we notice those things like integrity, keeping your word, honoring what you say is going to build trust. Even if it is about showing up on time, that’s going to be like, okay, I’m This is a person that I can rely on.

What they say, they do. That creates a feeling of trust. And you know, people will say trust is earned, but then that goes in when you go into relationships with that very strong sense of trust is earned. Then you’re like, you prove yourself to me. I don’t like to go about it that way. I prefer to be like, okay, this person is trustworthy and [00:58:00] I’m going to observe that.

I know I either observed that you are or observed that you aren’t. So whether or not I’m sharing little things with you and you know, vulnerability is earned, right? We don’t just go in, but trust, I think it’s different. So we might share something or we might say, yeah, I’m going to do this. I’m going to be there and vice versa.

And notice actually, no, this person isn’t very trustworthy or actually, yeah, they meet everything. They honor what I say. They hear me. They’re not sharing different things with other people and observing how do they be with other people. If someone comes to you and gossips, you better believe they’re gossiping about you to somebody else.

I pay attention to that. I pay very strong attention to that. That is telling me you’re not as trustworthy as I want to be. As I need. Yeah. 

Melissa: In my friendships. Mmm. That’s a big one. If someone is coming to you and gossiping or saying mean things about anyone else, you can probably guarantee they’re doing it about you too.

That’s so true. [00:59:00] Ouch. Mm. 

Sally: Yeah. And you know, it may not be full truth, but that’s something I’ve always, always just been mindful of. Cause I observe, I observe how people be in their life, in their world, with other people in their intimate relationships. That’s going to give me an idea as well. That’s how I get to test the trust ground, you know, without openly expressing being so vulnerable and pouring everything out.

I haven’t earned that, but observing that, paying attention. Mm. Okay. 

Melissa: There’s a part of me, a little part of me that’s like, why can’t we all just be trustworthy and loving and kind and like, why can’t everyone just be like that? 

Sally: Yeah, that would be great. 

Melissa: But like, imagine if we all just were. It’d just be so much easier.

Sally: We know everyone has their own stuff. Everyone has different reasons for being maybe less trustworthy because they don’t trust themselves. If you don’t trust yourself, It’s often the case that you’re not going to trust others. So, that’s a big sign as well. You can see that. If it’s [01:00:00] not personal to you, it’s a reflection.

Everything in relationship is a reflection of us. A 

Melissa: hundred percent. 

Sally: That’s 

Melissa: a good little Nugget for everyone to think about. If you have trust stuff coming up with other people, ask yourself, do you trust yourself? That’s big. 

Sally: But I dream of a world of unicorns and everyone trusting and loving each other.

I dream of that. Why can’t we just have that? Can keep dreaming. Yeah. But we can create that in our intimate circle. Yes. Yes. With our intimate relationships, with our sister relationships. We can. 

Melissa: Yeah. Absolutely. And with 

Sally: our partnership too. A hundred percent. 

Melissa: A hundred percent. I agree. I agree. Okay. How to connect more with our feminine side when we have kids and full time jobs.

I would love your thoughts on this. Okay. You’re very good at this. 

Sally: Well, I don’t have children and I do have Bambi. Well, it’s funny. Okay. When I am here. We talk about, like, when we’ve got, like, [01:01:00] Bambi’s going to get up, what do you need? What do you need? And as you know, as most people would know, who know me, I practice tea ceremony.

So I have tea before Bambi wakes up. If we’re, I remember we were going somewhere and it was like, okay, we’ve got this much time. We’ve got to pack the car. Dah, dah, dah, dah. What do you need? And what do you need? You needed a shower. I needed tea. So we’re like, right. Tag team. Yeah. And we work that out. And that is a feminine connection with myself that is tuning into my, to my body, to my intuition, that’s where I get a lot of insight and downloads.

So that’s something that I definitely practice. Dance, play, anything that’s kind of moving and beautiful is feminine. So what do you love? Do you like creating with your hands? That’s a feminine expression. And activity. Do you like to dance? Can you dance with your child? If you have children, you can, like Bambi loves dancing, we put music on and it’s like the best thing ever.

Or taking the time out, like if you want to go to a pottery class, then that’s your mama time, self care mama time. There are ways and it is so important. And I [01:02:00] think it’s, I’m not a mother yet. But I believe that the more we connect with our feminine, the more we can mother more lovingly because that is the feminine.

Thousand percent. It’s essential. 

Melissa: It’s essential, especially if you are a mama and you’re working full time like this lady is full time, she’s working full time and she’s a parent and how do you stay connected to that feminine? It is whatever makes you feel feminine. If that is for Sally, a tea ceremony for me, meditation twice a day.

It’s movement, going to the gym. I feel feminine, even though I’m maybe doing squats and lunges, I’m moving my body. I’m stretching. I’m moving my body. For me that, obviously intimacy with Nick, being in nature. I feel feminine. You know, it was so cute yesterday, Bambi said, let’s go outside and do earthing.

She’s never said that before. And I was like, yeah, babe, [01:03:00] let’s go outside and do earthing. So we went out there and took our socks off and put our feet in the grass. That is feminine dance. For me, mothering is the ultimate feminine. I’m on my hands and knees. I’m playing. I’m doing play doh. I’m drawing. I’m reading.

All of these things I do with her is ultimate feminine. And I think it is so important. We all have masculine. We all have feminine. We need to balance both of these energies within ourselves. We can’t be two in one. We can’t be two in our masculine or two in our feminine. We need that beautiful flow for us to feel balanced.

So, whatever makes you feel feminine, whatever that is for you. It might be surfing. Like one of our good friends, Donna, it’s surfing and like if she doesn’t surf four times a week, she’s like going crazy, you know, like that’s her thing. So whatever it is for you and then do it every day and it does not have to be a four hour surf.

I’m not saying that. Or a two hour tea ceremony. Sometimes your tea ceremonies [01:04:00] are short, just, you know, depending on what you’ve got on. It doesn’t have to be long. It could be two minutes of breath work, but it is imperative that each 

Sally: day there’s something for you. Some tuning in, 

Melissa: whatever 

Sally: it is that helps you tune into you to come back to center, to come back to your heart.

And to mother from that space, I would imagine makes that day of parenting a lot easier. 

Melissa: That’s why I started with meditation. Like at the end of my meditation, I do some visualization, I pray, I do some affirmations. Those things for me, like literally set me up for the day. And then in the evening, I’ve got a beautiful journal that I write in and I write what I’m grateful for and things like that.

And again, that’s another way to just bookend it. It takes me probably a minute to do a little journaling in my holy mama journal. Does not take long. So whatever it is for you, do it and do it every day. I love that. Final question. Is there anything else? Is there anything that we’ve missed [01:05:00] when it comes to friendships or partnerships?

Anything that you want to add? 

Sally: Knowing what you want, knowing who you are, knowing what you value. Knowing the life you want to live, when we know that about ourselves, when we are connected with ourselves, when we do trust ourselves, when we’re clear on all of this, creates a much more solid foundation to build those aligned relationships and to find them.

Whether that’s friendship or partnership, intimate partnership. You know, that’s one of the number one questions we always get. Like, how do you find your soul sisters? And another big question I get is how do I meet this person? They don’t exist. Like I can’t find them. Well, we have to be the person that incredible partner that you vision, we have to be the person that that person wants.

So we have to show up in that. We have to know who we are. If we meet this dream person that we want to be with, and we’re like, Oh, I don’t really know what I value. Oh, whatever you want. I’m not really sure. Oh no, I won’t speak my needs. [01:06:00] Is that the type of person that that partner is going to want? I would say no.

So we’ve got to be it and the only way we can be it is if we know it and get it clear for ourselves. We don’t want to be what somebody wants but we want to be what we want to be and who we and know that and know that we’re going to attract that match. That’s how we do it. And then we don’t have to have, you know, the dud matches and the bad DMs and all of those things that happens in dating that is so frustrating.

When we’re clear on that, we attract that. Hands down. Sister relationships too. Same thing. Same applies. A hundred percent. 

Melissa: Okay, if you could put a book in the school curriculum of every high school around the world, 

Sally: what is one book you would choose? My favorite book of all time is Conversations with God.

Oh. It’s so good. I remember listening to that. I think I listened to it. I don’t think I read it. And I was just like, yes, yes, yes. Because these are the conversations that I [01:07:00] felt, felt like, and I do feel like I was having. I have this dialogue and is it with God? Is it with myself? Is it with universe? It’s just a label.

I feel like it’s with my higher self and it just resonated so deeply and made me feel even more connected with whatever it is, the universe, spirit, myself. It’s all one, isn’t it? So that book for sure game changing. So good. It was a 

Melissa: game changer for me too. I actually re picked it up recently and it wasn’t having the same effect.

Sally: So I put it down. I was like, I don’t want to like change my experience. I haven’t picked it up for a long time. Don’t!

Oh my gosh, that’s so funny. I was like, Oh no, I was reading a bit, I was like, Oh no. But I think as well, like 

Melissa: you probably read it years ago. Yeah. It was years ago. Like I read it maybe like 13 years ago and I was like, have I never read this before? And [01:08:00] so 

Sally: I still want to have that feeling. Like I still, so I was like, Oh, I’m just gonna put that down.

Melissa: Yeah. I’ve had Neil Donna Walsh on the podcast. He is amazing. I’ll link to that episode in the show notes for you guys. Definitely go and listen to that episode. It’s so good. Okay. Tell me about your day. I want to hear about all of your rituals. Even though I know them. I could do Sally’s whole day for her cause I know, but tell everybody your little rituals and routines from when you wake up to when you go to bed.

Sally: Yeah. So I, as I said, love tea ceremony. That is one of the first things I do. Either I sit up and meditate. in bed, or I get up and turn on all my beautiful lamps and create this ambience in my house, turn the heaters on, cause I’m in Melbourne, um, and set up for tea. And that even in itself is a little ritual.

I’m really big on ritual and those beautiful practices and beauty. So the house is all beautiful. The lighting’s beautiful, setting up a tea table and I sit. And I drink tea and I connect with [01:09:00] myself. That is really one of the first things that I do every morning. And then from there, I will either go to a workout or I will go for a walk or depending, I will dive into work if I’m not working out that day.

And while I will eat before that, I will definitely eat before that, cook myself something delicious and beautifully presented as you know. Very Taurus. All these 

Melissa: things are so Taurus of her. Beauty and pleasure. Everything she does is beauty and pleasure. It’s so beautiful to witness. 

Sally: Literally, yeah.

Everything must be beautiful. You should see how she plates up her oats 

Melissa: in the morning. 

Sally: It’s a work of art. I’m just like, just get it on there! So Aries, so Aries, and then so Taurus. And that there’s such difference in Aries and Taurus. Right. And I am, everything’s beautiful. And she’s like, Oh my God, your oats look so good.

But I’m like, just eat it. It cracks me up. I appreciate it though. I know. I truly like, it’s beautiful. I don’t appreciate yours. Yeah, I know. Sorry. That is too [01:10:00] funny. Um, but I love those differences, you know. Yeah. So good. And then I would dive into work or go out for lunch or connect with people, whatever I’m doing.

And then again, at the end of the day, I definitely dim lights, connect with people and have an early night. But the thing that really starts my day is tea. That’s something. And getting into nature at some stage. If I haven’t gone for a walk in the morning, I’ll go in the afternoon. 

Melissa: Beautiful. I love it.

Okay. Three rapid fire questions for you. You ready? Ready. What is one thing that we can do for more health in our 

Sally: life? This is a reminder for myself. Drink more water. Yes. Water is everything and sleep, but water. I need the reminder of water. So I’m going to say that. Yeah. Beautiful. 

Melissa: What is one thing we can do for more wealth in 

Sally: our life?

Melissa: Okay. 

Sally: See the abundance that is everywhere around us. I think we think the word abundance means wealth and money, like actually just money. It doesn’t just mean money. There’s abundance of love, gratitude for something, beauty in life, relationships, you [01:11:00] know, see more of what we have in abundance rather than what we are lacking.

And it just grows. 

Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. And what about one thing we can do for more love in our life? 

Sally: Love ourselves more and allow that when we fill ourselves up, when we truly love ourselves and accept ourselves, which I think are synonymous, then we can show up as that in the world. The more love we have, the more pulls out, the more resistance or resentments or frustrations.

that pours out to the world. So fill with love and we’ll be the love that we want to see in the world as well. 

Melissa: Yeah. Beautiful. Tell us before we wrap up a bit more about Lover, your amazing program, which helps females who feel like their clock is ticking, find love. Yes. 

Sally: I’m so excited about this. This is the combination, I guess, of, My work for so many years and what people come to me for is relationships and dating and knowing who you are.

So knowing yourself [01:12:00] to be able to be in relationship with yourself in order to be in relationship with others. So we dive into all of this and I’ve got a very clear method, three step formula of how we can. Define all of that for ourselves and how we can really embody it, because that is the key. We can’t just know it on paper.

It’s not just a list. We’ve got to know it. We’ve got to take the wisdom from our past relationships. We don’t have to dive back into all of the heartache and sit there for days and weeks. No, we can fast forward that whole reflection, take all of the wisdom into who we are now, what we’re looking for right now, and be able to Align with that, embody that, and then be a match for that.

And it is specifically for women who feel like their clock is ticking, whether you’re in your thirties, I’m 42. And so I know I get DMS all of the time talking from women being like, I’m feeling like this. I’m feeling like I’m running out of time. And when we are in that energy, we are often attracting people out of desperation or [01:13:00] from that different, that lower frequency.

And we want to vibrate. So when we know exactly who we are and what we are looking for, and that the clock isn’t going to run out, it’s not going to overtake, it’s not going to be the end for you, that is going to invite them and call them in a lot faster. So being able to embody that and know that know it in your body, we know a lot in our mind, but we’ve got to live it and breathe it and know it, and then it all comes.

It all comes. So if you are interested, the doors are open right now and you can come to my Instagram, which is sallyjanedouglas. I’m sure the link will be in the show notes as well and DM me and we can chat and see if it’s the right fit for you. It’s an incredible program and it’s, yeah, I’m so, so excited.

Melissa: And coming full circle, you know, you just spoke about embodiment. That is the key to an amazing teacher and to an amazing guide. And you are the embodiment of everything that you teach and all of the practices, all of the methodologies that you teach. They’re so powerful. It is an incredible program. So if [01:14:00] you are a female and you feel like your clock is ticking, definitely check out Lover.

Go to Sally’s Instagram, Sally Jane Douglas. I’ll link to it in the show notes and DM her and she’ll send you all the details and all the goodness. And just, yeah, go and connect with her. She’s awesome. This has been so much fun. I have absolutely loved it. Is there anything else you want to share or any last parting words of wisdom?

Sally: I guess I really want to speak to The women my age or even a little bit younger who do feel like they’re running out of time because I know what that feels like and I know it can be so easy when like, oh you’ll meet the right person, it’ll be okay. It doesn’t necessarily feel like that. So I want you to feel really seen.

I get it. You know, I’ve lived that and I’ve helped so many of my clients move through that phase as well of feeling like they’ve, they’ve missed the boat and they’re too late. And it is a scary place to be when everyone around you is in a relationship and everyone around you has what you want or they’re [01:15:00] pregnant and they’re creating the family that you want.

I know that feeling. I really do. So I just want those people to feel really loved and seen because that’s what we all really want and to know that I’m here and I’m the biggest support for you and come and join my community on Instagram because that’s, that’s who we’re made up of. And it’s the best. I love, I love that.

My little corner of the internet, I call it. Yeah, 

Melissa: it’s beautiful. And we’ll link to everything else. your website, sign up to your newsletter, your beautiful love notes. We’ll link to all of that amazingness in the show notes for everyone to go and check out. But this has been such a delight, such a treat 

Sally: for me.

Oh, 

Melissa: yes. It’s been so beautiful. Thank you for being in my life, for sharing your wisdom with us today. And for just being the best friend, God mama, beautiful, divine, devoted soul sister that you are. It’s so beautiful. I love and adore you. Thank you for being [01:16:00] here. 

Sally: Thank you for having me. And I, 

Melissa: I 

Sally: echo all of that back.

Melissa: I 

Sally: love you.

Melissa: I hope you got so much out of that conversation. I hope you are ready to take your friendships to the next level and your relationships. And I really hope that you implement some of the things that we spoke about today. I had so much fun doing this episode because I mean, like I said at the start, is there anything better than sitting with one of your best friends uninterrupted and having a chat?

I don’t know. It’s seriously the best. Now, if you got a lot out of this and you loved it, please subscribe and follow the show and leave me a review on Apple podcasts if you haven’t already. And then send me a screenshot at Melissa Rambrosini on Instagram and I will send you a little thank you gift. Now, before I go, I just wanted to say thank you so much for being here, for wanting to be the best, the happiest, and the healthiest version of yourself and for showing up today for you, my friend, you rock.

I hope you really know that. [01:17:00] Now, if there’s someone in your life that you can think of that would really benefit from this episode, please share it with them right now. You can take a screenshot, share it on your social media, email it to them, text it to them. Do whatever you have got to do to get this in their ears.

And until next time, don’t forget that love is sexy, healthy is liberating, and wealthy isn’t a dirty word.

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