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I’ve been deeply concerned about the environmental impact of fast fashion for years. But I didn’t realize how much this issue resonated with all of you until I published an episode about it a few months back (Episode #534) and it became a break-out hit. 

Following the release of that episode, I got *so* many passionate DMs in my inbox, along with fervent requests for more deep-dives into this critical issue.

So today, I’m thrilled to bring you this eye-opening conversation with the remarkable Celeste Tesoriero, a global thought leader and renowned consultant in the area of sustainable fashion.

Celeste is taking us right back to the start of the fashion ‘food chain’ to reveal the devastating reality of our current farming techniques, as well as the regenerative practices that can turn this whole problem around — if only we can act quickly enough.

Press play now to learn: why farming and fashion are inextricably linked, what indigenous cultures can teach us about sustainable growing practices, why buying organic clothing isn’t enough, the true impact of online shopping (and how we, as consumers, can make a huge difference here), simple steps and mindset shifts to become a sustainable fashionista, plus an answer to the billion dollar question: have we left it too late?

This episode is compulsory listening for anyone who’s ever bought or worn clothes (hint: that’s everyone!), and I know you’ll walk away with your mind and heart blown wide open after hearing Celeste’s insights, just like I did.

So if you care even the *slightest* bit about our planet, our future, and the future of our children, and want to know the simple ways you can help make a huge difference, then press play IMMEDIATELY — this one’s for you. 

About Celeste Tesoriero

Celeste Tesoriero is an Australian-based sustainability director, lecturer, and the founder of sustainability consultancy Sonzai Studios. Boasting a 15-year career in fashion design, Celeste has worked with leading haute couture fashion houses and globally renowned labels, and even launched own eponymous sustainable brand. Her innovative designs have earned her nominations for seven international awards, including the WGSNs Emerging Talent award and the International Woolmark Prize. 

After witnessing firsthand the harmful effects of the fashion industry on both people and the environment, Celeste redirected her focus entirely towards sustainability. She established her consulting agency, Sonzai Studios with the goal of empowering brands to achieve a sustainable future, and has worked with a suite of international clientele spanning various retail sectors from apparel to homewares.

In this episode we chat about:

• The incredible story behind her path from fast fashion to sustainable fashion (3:34)
• The transformative impact of going sustainable (16:13)
• The problem with organic products on the fashion industry (17:56)
• Is regenerative farming the real change? (20:48)
• Sustainability101 – What is it? (26:22)
• Making a switch from traditional farming methods to regenerative (29:52)
• My journey into sustainability (32:10)
• The 3 sustainability pillars: What can we do to make a real change? (41:36)
• Looking to Indigenous cultures to change our approach to farming (58:18)
• Genius tips to be more conscious when shopping online (66:47)
• 3 things everybody can focus on when starting to go deeper on sustainability (71:33)

Episode resources:

• SheLaunch (join here)
• Mastering Your Mean Girl by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Open Wide by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Comparisonitis by Melissa Ambrosini (book)
• Time Magic by Melissa Ambrosini and Nick Broadhurst (book)
• Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save the World by Tyson Yunkaporta (book)
• The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself by Michael A Singer (book)
• Sonzai Studios (website)
• Sonzai Studios (Instagram)

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The following transcript has been automatically generated and not checked for accuracy.

Melissa: [00:00:00] In episode 546 with Celeste Tessariro, we are diving deep into the world of sustainability, especially when that comes to the fashion industry. Plus so much more. Welcome to the Melissa Ambrosini Show. I’m your host, Melissa, best selling author of Mastering Your Mean Girl, Open Wide, Comparisonitis and Time Magic.
And I’m here to remind you that love is sexy, healthy is liberating and wealthy isn’t a dirty word. Each week I’ll be getting up close and personal with thought leaders from around the globe, as well as your weekly dose of motivation so that you can create epic change in your own life and become the best version of yourself possible.
Are you ready? Beautiful.
Celeste: Hey, beautiful.
Melissa: And welcome back to the show. I am so excited that you are here because Celeste and I have been friends since I was [00:01:00] 17 years old, a very, very, very long time. And I’m so excited for her to share her wisdom with you guys today. She is a wealth of knowledge. And for those of you that have never heard of Celeste, She is an Australian based sustainability director, lecturer, and the founder of sustainability consultancy, Sonsai Studios.
With 15 years of fashion design experience, including operating her own sustainable brand, her work has been nominated for seven international design awards, which is incredible. But after experiencing firsthand the devastating impact of fashion on people and the planet, And realizing the short timeframe we have to curb the climate crisis, she shifted her focus solely to sustainability and launched her consultancy, Sonsai Studios, empowering brands to achieve a sustainable future through strategy, communication, and creativity.
Now, for everything that we mentioned in today’s episode, you can check [00:02:00] out in the show notes and that’s over at melissarambrosini. com forward slash five, four, six buckle up guys. This is such an incredible life changing conversation. I am so excited for you guys to dive in
beautiful Celeste. I am so excited to have you here. We have been friends since I was 17 years old. I was 17 when we met at Brent Street. Gosh, that feels like so long ago and you’re a bit younger than me. So you probably were like maybe 15 something. Yeah, something like that. And so we were both performers.
We were singing and acting and dancing and performing and we absolutely loved it. It’s been amazing to continue to follow you on social media and watch your evolution and your journey to where you are [00:03:00] today, to doing the work that you now do, to being a new mama. I am so excited to have you here, honey.
Before we dive in, can you tell us what you had for breakfast this morning?
Celeste: Absolutely. And I was kind of having a chuckle when I was making breakfast this morning because I am a new mum. My breakfast is no longer ritualistic. It’s whatever I can quickly make. So this morning was eggs on toast while
Melissa: holding a baby and doing all the things.
Yes, exactly. Now, my love, what led you to devote your career to sustainability within the fashion industry? Because this wasn’t always your path. Like I knew back when you were in Brent Street, you always had. A love for fashion. I remember that you were always, you know, playing around with different looks and that was something that you loved, but what led you to where you are today?
How did this all happen? How did you go from Brent street [00:04:00] to where you are now?
Celeste: Yes. So amazing place to start with us, that visual of us dancing as 17 year olds. Yeah, so it got to a point with me with dancing and I was doing it professionally that I was just craving intellectual learning. And as you said, fashion was always on my radar.
I was always going to the charity stores and getting different things and sewing them up and making them something new. So I always had that. Passion there, but I just didn’t know exactly what that was. I never saw myself as a fashion designer and I still feel it, it sort of happened by accident that I fell into it, but it was obviously meant to be.
So I started studying. Something called entertainment design. As I said, I was sort of feeling a bit restless just with the dancing and wanted to learn. And so entertainment design incorporated lots of different types. So it was product design, set [00:05:00] design, costume design, and fashion design was just one of the modules.
And I remember. Being at home, doing my assignments, sketching, doing research, uh, John Galliano, haute couture shows, and just absolutely falling in love and was obsessed and from there it just became really obvious that that was what I wanted to do. And then as life happens at the end of that first year of study, I got a job designing for a brand that I’d looked up to and loved my whole teenage years.
So then from there, I just learned on the job and was thrown straight into the fashion industry, worked for some amazing Australian brands and was taken over to Bali to work for a brand over there. And then after about. Six or seven years designing for other people, I thought I want to give this a go myself.
So I started my own brand and it was really there that the seeds of sustainability were [00:06:00] sown. So I think designing for other people, and if anyone listening here is a designer, you might connect to this. You. a bit far removed from the actual process of the sourcing of the materials or the raw material growing.
You don’t actually physically usually go to the dye houses or the print makers. You’re working with factories who will have a manager or who will have an agent that you sit down with in a nice shiny office and look at fabric swatches and, and dye sheets. So when I had my own brand, I got more heavily involved in what that supply chain looks like.
And I had a huge light bulb moment that still gives me goosebumps when I think about it. I was, so my production was running late. Producing clothing is really hard. That’s another thing that I’ll say. There’s so many things that can go wrong. So my production was running late, which means stores weren’t going to get my [00:07:00] items for months after they were due, which means they can cancel it.
And so I was in a bit of a panic. And I was living in Bali at the time. And there’s a whole suburb in Bali in the city in Denpasar that has all of the print and dye houses in one place. And this is where I was printing and dyeing my particular fabrics for this season. And so I was like, what is going on?
Why is this so late? I need to go there physically myself and see what it is. So jumped on the bike, was driving through these. Particular suburbs in Bali. And I just remember this smell, this really strong smell of chemicals. Sort of just hit me in the face to that point where you instinctually grab your t shirt, put it over your mouth because you’re like, I can’t be breathing this in.
This is so bad for me. I need to quickly get in and out of here because I don’t want to be here too long. And then I remember [00:08:00] looking to my right and seeing. You know, kids playing in the street and then a little bit further down the road there was men fishing in the waterways there, which all the fabric and dye runoff goes straight into those waterways.
There was people bathing in the waterways and I just burst out crying because I had this really quick ethical realization that these people not only were breathing in these chemicals, they were bathing in it. And their children were playing in the streets where it was in the ground. And I just knew that I couldn’t be a part of that problem anymore.
I couldn’t contribute to this. And also those feelings of guilt of how did I not understand this before? And how did I not know this was happening? So that was my light bulb moment. And I think for anyone who has really stark experience like that, it becomes a bit of a snowball effect of. [00:09:00] What else can I do?
Okay. I’ve learned this and now what else? So within my own brand, each season, I would move into more, let’s say sustainable, but I want to go into what the definition of sustainability really means soon. More sustainable practices each season. The first one was moving to natural dyes, obviously. And that yes, noble effect kept happening to the point where it actually became.
My own worst business partner, because through this snowball effect of learning about sustainable fashion, questioning production and seeing that we have enough clothes in the world and we don’t need more new stuff. And I was making new stuff every season and trying to sell a consumeristic product at the same time as.
It’s really questioning consumeristic patterns and, and [00:10:00] it just got to a point where I couldn’t continue doing it. And the brand was very successful. It was doing really well, but it just no longer felt aligned. I just started questioning what else could I do that is still in this field that I’m still really passionate about that isn’t creating new clothing.
There are enough brands, there are enough people doing it. What can I do? And for me, I don’t know if anyone listening as well who’s had their own company or own business. Closing that was quite a hard thing to do because I felt a lot of my identity was wrapped up in that brand. And who was I, if I wasn’t doing this brand and who was I, if I wasn’t a fashion designer, what did that look like?
It was a really scary leap to take, but I, I had to do it. It was so obvious. So. Rather than jump straight into designing for someone else, because I just couldn’t really imagine coming from directing [00:11:00] my own brand where all of the ideas were mine and it was my creativity to working for someone else again and working within the parameters of another creative director, even though I do love working with other designers, I couldn’t think of doing that at that time.
So I really needed a palate cleanse. One of the things that had always been on my mind was. So I was wanting to see what the top of the fashion food chain looked like, and I’m in Australia. So I think being in this little pond over here, we look overseas and we think, wow, what are those big fashion houses doing?
What does it look like to work for one of those? So I jumped over to London and I started working for a brand called Roland Marais. And rather than designing, I was the sustainability manager there. So that was. It’s absolutely incredible. And it was exactly what I needed to continue my journey on this path.
It was the first [00:12:00] sustainability manager that Roland Marais had hired. And it came really naturally to them as a company to start working with me in this area because, and we can talk about this a little bit later as well, but luxury fashion could be said that. It’s a little bit inherently more sustainable because it’s slightly slower, quality is of utmost importance.
And I don’t know if anyone here owns anything by Roland Moray or have even just seen one of Roland Moray’s dresses, but just by touching it, you can feel the workmanship and you can feel the quality of the beautiful fabric. And so that’s going to be something that you pass. Down to your children and your grandchildren.
It’s going to be around for a while. It’s not a fast fashion piece that you’ll wear a couple of times and then throw in the bin. So this beautiful luxury house, Roland Marais, I was thrown in the deep end. I had done sustainability management for my own brand, but in terms [00:13:00] of. Doing it at this large scale, I was definitely learning on the job.
So I was doing everything from initial strategy, long term, short term strategy of what that could be with their initiatives to communication, to marketing, all the way down to what recycling are we using and what are we doing with our fabric scraps? So that was a fantastic learning. And the best part of that job was, Roland Marais was part of the British Fashion Council’s Positive Fashion Committee.
And this was an amazing initiative put on by the British Fashion Council, which was roundtable discussions. Of any brands who are doing sustainability to get together, sit down in a really casual setting, chat about what challenges they’ve got, what solutions they might be working on and if there was ways to collaborate and work together.
So within that, I got to sit with the other sustainability managers from brands like Vivienne [00:14:00] Westwood and Kering, which is Gucci and Yves Saint Laurent, for example, and then really big companies like M& S, Marks and Spencers, which is a big corporation over there. And It really helped me realize and solidify the fact that at this time, so this was 2017 or 18, everyone was having the same conversations and no one knew better than each other of what to do.
And. It was really obvious the only way we were going to solve any of these problems was through collaboration. And that really made me excited because the fashion industry up until this point in my experience is super cagey. People do not talk about Where they’re producing, they do not talk about how they’re doing things.
It’s super competitive, especially at that luxury level. And here was all of us sitting around going, Hey, I’m having a plastic problem. We [00:15:00] have loads of plastic. Hangers that our production gets delivered on. We’ve realized this is a huge problem and maybe a quick fix. Has anyone else got this problem? Yes.
Yes. Okay. What should we do about it? And so projects were born and solutions were born within those round table discussions that created positive change. And that was definitely the experience for me to go, huh, I feel. That from having these conversations from the top of the fashion food chain in, in a manner of speaking that I can really help brands and with the knowledge and experience I have here, I can instigate more change by working with.
A lot of brands at once rather than being a sustainability manager within one brand. So that was the seeds of Sons Eye Studios being sewn. And that’s my sustainability consultancy that I’m doing now. So I’ve been doing that for about five years, I [00:16:00] think, and working with clients internationally over retail sectors.
So fashion, but also things like furniture and even floristry to technology with a client like Adobe. Wow.
Melissa: And so they come to you and they’re like, Celeste, help us be more sustainable.
Celeste: Sometimes. Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of brands that are attracted to working with me are already doing quite a lot of good and need to know how to speak about it and want to dive deeper.
It’s this funny thing in fashion that even if you’re doing something good, a lot of brands are hesitant to talk about it because they’re worried of backlash. So working with an expert and working with a professional specifically in sustainability helps them feel more confident to take that leap.
Melissa: Why would they get backlash if they’re doing something good?
Celeste: Yeah. Well, so I don’t think they would, most of them, but it’s this fear that [00:17:00] they have that if they put their hand up for doing one thing good in a certain sector of their business, that it might highlight that they haven’t nailed another sector. So an example of that would be they could be using amazing organic cotton or hemp, for example, which are seen in the industry as more sustainable fabrics than regular, but they might not have gotten to the point where their supply chain is 100 percent transparent yet.
So they might be working on it, but they might not know where that organic cotton is grown. And we can get into this a little bit later, but there’s a lot of fraud happening in the organic cotton industry where it’s getting sold as organic, but it’s actually not. So sustainability is fraught with all of these what ifs or this could happen or this could happen and it puts brands off speaking about it.
Wow.
Melissa: Okay. That makes sense. Let’s talk about farming and the link between farming and fashion and [00:18:00] just go back to what you were just saying. Like. Yeah. I buy organic cotton things trusting that that’s what they are. And you’re saying that some companies aren’t?
Celeste: Yeah, so there’s some very devastating evidence now showing that the amount of organic cotton being sold on the market is more than is being grown.
So there is somewhere along the line, this regular cotton is being branded as organic when it’s not.
Melissa: Okay. So how would we as the consumer find out which ones are legit and which ones aren’t? Yeah.
Celeste: So again, this comes down to transparency of that supply chain and the brand really know, needs to know where that cotton is coming from.
And this seems like a simple thing, but I’m telling you, this is really hard to find out. So at the stage where. Natural fibers or any [00:19:00] fiber becomes a fabric. So that weaving stage, you could have cotton from four different areas being made into the one roll. So even though you’re assuming you’re getting your organic cotton from one place, it could be mixed in with it from four other places.
And that transparency is. It’s really hard to get to unless you’re going to the farm directly yourself. Oh
Melissa: my goodness. I’m not going to go to the farm myself. I have to trust these companies, but they’re not transparent.
Celeste: Yeah, so one way us as customers, we can. try to make sure that we are buying organic cotton would be buying it from companies who do have that transparency.
So there are brands who are working with farmers directly and, you know, brands should have this information on their website. It’s funny, I was thinking about having this chat with you and these sorts of topics of [00:20:00] what can we do, what can customers do. And it actually just makes me so annoyed that we as the customer would have to do this amount of work to know that we’re not buying items that are fraudulent, fake organic cotton could potentially be made using child labor.
It just drives me insane that that is our problem and policy hasn’t caught up to make anyone producing any item accountable for knowing that for us. We should be able to go onto a website and if it says organic cotton, we should be able to trust that it’s organic cotton and the industry is just not there yet and it’s, it’s really frustrating.
Melissa: Absolutely. Because for so long, I thought organic farming was the most important thing to look for when buying clothes, but since delving deeper into this topic and by no means am I [00:21:00] an expert. I am simply just hungry for information and wanting to do better, but I’ve learned that organic is not only the tip of the iceberg, but the real change comes from regenerative farming.
Can you talk
Celeste: about that? Yeah, absolutely. So with sustainability, it’s like anything in fashion, there are trends happening. So, you know, we saw the trend of bamboo becoming a really popular fiber. Lots of brands just started out of nowhere selling bamboo thinking this is the most sustainable thing ever.
And then we found out a couple of years later that bamboo is super. Chemically intensive to get it soft enough to make it into a fabric. So then everyone’s backpedaling going, Oh, okay. Bamboo is not that sustainable. What’s the next thing? Okay. So it’s organic, organic, organic, hot and sustainable. Oh no, it’s fraudulent.
We’re backpedaling. We’re backpedaling. Now we’re at the trend where it’s regenerative fashion. [00:22:00] Now I am making fun of those trends there, but in a way, it’s fantastic that sustainable fashion is this dynamic and changing this quickly because. We’re not getting stagnant and we’re not going, okay, this is the most sustainable thing.
It is getting questioned all the time and changing. So regenerative fashion is farming the raw materials in a way that’s not just taking resources, it’s giving back. So an example would be hemp. Hemp is a fantastic fiber. The farming of it, in comparison to something like cotton, takes up way less land. a lot less water.
It’s a lot more sturdy. So you need a lot less herbicides, pesticides, chemicals. And the regenerative part of that is it gives back to the soil. And I have heard you talk about this in another podcast previously of [00:23:00] why it’s so important that we’re giving back to our soil. But this is a really good segue into why sustainability needs to be about giving back these resources rather than just the resource being organic or being seen as better.
We need to work in a way that’s. is regenerating these systems because we’re at this point of depletion. We can’t actually be going on like this much further with regular standard farming. We need to be giving back. So that’s what regenerative farming is. It’s working with nature in a way that we’re not depleting resources.
We are putting some back in. And
Melissa: the companies and brands that are doing that, is that listed on their websites so that we can find out who’s doing it?
Celeste: Yeah. Well, you would hope so. As I said, it [00:24:00] is tricky sometimes to find this information, but, you know. Using hemp is one easy win for us, you know, if something’s made from hemp, you can be rest assured that that is helping put things back into the soil in a regenerative way, rather than regular cotton.
Again, it’s sort of annoying that we need to have this level of education to be making the right decisions. But it is, like you said, this topic is so important and it really is all of our responsibility. And unfortunately, we can’t rely on the brands with transparency so much and we can’t rely on governmental policy so much.
It really is in our hands. And I’d love here just to actually Take a moment to talk about the why, because I do feel sometimes the term sustainability really alienates people. It’s a confusing word. It’s a bit convoluted. The meaning is [00:25:00] it’s a bit gray and without connecting to the why it can be hard. To feel passionate to make a difference or to, to run all the way through a company’s website to see if they’re using hemp.
So I just want to take this moment to acknowledge this is, this is not a hippy dippy problem, sustainability. This is a, it’s a survival thing for all of us. You know, we all want to. be able to drink fresh water. We all want to be able to breathe fresh air. We want to live without fear that our homes are going to be taken by fires or floods.
And we want to feel secure in our food systems that we’re not going to be faced with famine. And I think it’s really hard to connect to issues unless they’re staring you right in the face or they’re right on your doorstep. And I really need to tell you that these [00:26:00] issues are on your door and they’re knocking and we can’t just hope that it goes away and do nothing about it.
We all really need to open the door. So that being said, I know that it can be a convoluted term, but this really, it’s going to take all of us and we really have to make a change. So. This might be a good idea to actually go into the, the definition of sustainability here because it is confusing and I love to make sustainability simple for people, if you think that’s all right.
Yes, go for it, babe. Yeah, so the most commonly used definition of sustainability is working in a way. that works with the environment, social and economic systems that isn’t going to impede future generations to have what they need. Now, the [00:27:00] reason why this is a confusing, but also widely debated is because it’s still completely human centric.
So this is our main problem that we’re having with sustainability is the solutions we’re trying to find, we’re still thinking that we’re the top, we’re the most important thing. And there’s no acknowledgement that. As humans, we are part of this very complex, intricate earth system that is keeping us alive.
And to think that we’re above it is just the wrong place to start. So to think that sustainability is about our own human future generations, having what they need is. Completely the wrong way of looking at it, and we really need systems change and we need to be looking at it in a completely different way.
So that’s the definition of sustainability, which is widely debated, and [00:28:00] that is. It’s really obvious to why anyone here listening feels confused by sustainability because it’s not that we can’t even agree on a definition.
Melissa: You know what? I feel like a lot of people think, Oh, I won’t really make a difference.
What’s little old me going to do? Like how am I going to make a difference in this gigantic issue that we have faced that is knocking on our door? Like you said. But the truth is, like, every decision that you make in a day, every decision, you have an opportunity to make a more sustainable choice. Like going and getting your coffee, you know, a simple thing like that.
You could take your own cup, just little things like this, or you could not get a coffee and have, make something at home, little tiny choices, every choice that we make, where we choose to buy things from, or if we choose to buy them, it comes back to us. And I know for [00:29:00] me, this was so amped up when I had my daughter, it’s something just put a firecracker.
Inside me and was like, I have to be more of an example for her. And so, you know, I just amped up everything that I was already doing and, and looking at different ways that I can do things. So I just want to remind everyone that it’s our choices every single day that are going to lead to a more sustainable future or not.
And we have the power. And it starts with us and our children are watching, they’re watching what we’re doing, they’re watching how much we’re consuming, where we’re buying things from and all of those things. So I just wanted to remind everyone that it starts with us and we can make a difference, but I just wanted to go back to making the switch.
So. So many crops that are used for clothing fibers [00:30:00] are grown in developing countries. Now, I’m guessing that there’s a cost involved in switching from traditional farming methods to regenerative ones. So how do these farmers afford to make the switch? Like is this on the brands to fund this? The consumers, like who funds it?
Celeste: Yeah. A complicated question there. It’s, and I won’t pretend to be an expert in farming, that’s for sure. Brands, you know, especially small to medium brands don’t have the funds and they don’t have the ability, the expertise to be farming and helping farmers do these very complicated switches. Uh, it’s. It is so hard and for a farmer in India, for example, that has a regular cotton farm, they are caught up in a lot of systems beyond [00:31:00] themselves that are making those crops happen.
So they have to buy the seeds, they have to buy the fertilizer, they have to buy the pesticides to the point where, you know, a lot of farmers are in. Tremendous amounts of debt where they don’t even own their land anymore. So for them to have the power to decide to switch to organic farming, I wouldn’t put it on them.
I think it’s beyond them to have these switches happen. We really need a push from governments and, you know, I’m not going to pretend to know about what a governmental system is like in India or. how that’s even possible, but this actually just brings me into the big systems thinking that we need. And it’s such a fantastic question you have because it’s looking at beyond just the clothing on the rack or how do we recycle our clothing at the end of the life, going back to the source and how it’s [00:32:00] farmed.
How do we solve those problems? How do we get those farmers to be able to switch to regenerative farming? We need to be thinking at that large scale. But I would love to go back to what you said, that your firecracker happened when you had Bambi. I would love to hear, because you and I have been meaning to have this conversation for a very long time, and I know how passionate you are about it, and I’ve heard you speak about it before.
But what do you think it was for you that made you aware, or was the first kind of seeds of sustainability in your life? The first
Melissa: seed, I guess, was planted probably back in 2010 when I ended up in hospital. I’d moved back from dancing in Paris and living in London for two years and completely burnt myself out and ended up in hospital.
In 2010, and I realized in hospital that I had to get happy and [00:33:00] healthy again, because I didn’t have my health and I didn’t have inner happiness. And I went and studied holistic nutrition and my eyes were opened up to nutrition and organic farming. And sustainability and composting and all of these things.
And I was just blown away shopping at the local farmer’s markets, eating in season locally, all of these things. And it was born from that passion of wanting to get healthy first and foremost, and it started with nutrition and health, and I just. was like, why are we not taught this in school? I was never taught any of that stuff in school, like to eat in season, and to eat locally, and what that means, and why eating locally is so important, and growing your own food, and composting, and, All of these things and I just [00:34:00] became obsessed with it in a healthy way and have been ever since have been obsessed with health and, and all of that ever since.
But it then kind of drip fed out into other areas of my life. You know, then I started looking at my clothing choices and leather. And all of these different things. And so it’s almost like I went through each area of my life and just started cleaning up all of these different areas. I actually started a YouTube channel called Detox Your Life.
And I went through all the different areas of our life, like our health, our relationships. everything and was detoxing all of these different areas. I looked at the products I was using and couldn’t believe I didn’t know all of this about the chemicals that I was putting all over my body and plastic and like recycling and all of these things.
So. [00:35:00] It planted a seed within me that kind of rippled out into all the areas of my life and I’ve just continuously over the past 13 years gone deeper and deeper and deeper. And I’ve had Zach Bush on the podcast a couple of times who talks a lot about regenerative farming and agriculture. And the soil and all of that.
And I’ve learned a lot from him. He says that we only have around 60 harvests left. And I was just blown away. I’m like, we are destroying the earth and our children and our children’s children. I’m not going to get to see this beauty that we get to see if we keep acting the way that we are acting. And this is why it’s so important that we take back the power and we stop going, Oh, the government’s got to do something, or these companies have got to do something.
We can make the changes within our own home. And that’s where I just started really [00:36:00] making more shifts and putting my foot down. Like I. You know, I’m really passionate about some things and I won’t budge on it. You know, if there’s something that I don’t want to purchase because I know that that is supporting a company that I don’t believe in, I’ll be like, no, I’m not buying that.
I’m not supporting that. And so, yeah, it kind of all was born back then and I’m still learning. I’m definitely not perfect. I’m always learning. Like only this year I’ve started gardening and growing some of my own produce and learning about soil and we compost and teaching Bambi all about this, like there’s so much I have to still learn, but I’m so committed to it.
And I think. The biggest thing that I really want to drive home is that. We have the power, it starts with us and our children are modeling everything that we do. And so we need to make these [00:37:00] little choices every day that are going to affect the way that our children see our beautiful planet.
Celeste: Hmm. Oh, thanks for sharing.
Yeah. So good to hear. It’s interesting that it starts with health because I sometimes relate the word sustainability to the word healthy because it’s such an umbrella term, right? People have a very different perception of what they think is healthy and through your journey and through your learnings, I’m sure that your perception of what’s healthy is changing all the time with biohacking and, and all that, you know.
Extra amazing stuff. Sustainability is the same. Some people and some brands, and this is a problem as well, totally think a certain solution is sustainable, but they’re just at a certain education level and an expert would definitely argue that that’s not sustainable. For example, so interesting. It made me think as well that even though I explained [00:38:00] my light bulb moment with sustainable fashion.
I think in sustainable lifestyle for me, mine was driven from health as well. And that was happening simultaneously to my fashion journey, but definitely having a bit of a health scare and then moving into what I can do to, you know. get my immune system strong, X, Y, Z, chemicals, plastic, I became very, very strict on no plastic.
I’m less extremist now, which is interesting because I feel the more I learn about sustainability, they’re a bigger fish to fry per se. But I think. My passion in this area, similar to you, is it’s lifestyle related and, and it’s, it’s fashion, it’s all happening at the same time, and maybe that’s a really good connection for people who might be [00:39:00] listening, who are really passionate about wellness.
but haven’t really made that connection with fashion yet. That regenerative farming and, and our food basically is grown similar to how our fibers for clothing is grown. It’s all interrelated and yeah, we can be passionate about both. And what a great call to action that it is up to all of us. I totally agree.
I don’t want people to feel overwhelmed or Scared by that. I want them to be inspired by that. And so perhaps this is a good idea to go into some ideas of how people can do it in their day to day. Yes,
Melissa: please, please. And I would love that so much because if we don’t have these conversations, we don’t know.
So like, let me give you an example. And I’ve shared this story on the podcast before. One of my best girlfriends, Sally. She has always inspired me with this. She’s always looking for more sustainable local labels. Like she’s always bought [00:40:00] things that are sustainable. And so I’ve often got, you know, ideas from her.
And she said to me once she would always email and she still does this. She always emails the company or even just sends them a message on Instagram. And says, Hey, I just ordered from you. Here’s my order number. Please do not put any plastic in my packaging. Please do not put any bubbles, anything at all.
I’m happy to just have my clothes in the bag or whatever. Like, please don’t put paper, please don’t put anything. And they are, I think every time she’s asked, they’ve always said, sure, no worries. So like that, for example, is a simple thing that we can do and you can even have like a template in your phone that you just copy and paste and put in your order number each time you order something.
But that’s something that you can do. And if I had never heard of that, I would never have known and I would never
Celeste: have done it. Totally. And how inspiring and good on [00:41:00] her. I think it takes someone very dedicated to do that every time. And I think sometimes it can be overwhelming for people to think that they’re going to have to email someone every time they make an order.
And then for people who buy things off Amazon, who do you even email? Your friend, even to that example, must already be choosing to only buy from people that she can talk to directly, which is shopping small, potentially shopping locally. So it sounds like she’s got a couple of good tools in her belt already.
Yes. Absolutely. But, so let’s go into some things that we can do, and that is one beautiful example. So when we’re talking about sustainability as well, there’s three different sections, and they’re called the sustainability pillars. Now I’m a visual person, so I’m going to explain this in a visual way. So imagine each of these three elements are a circle, and the circle is the same diameter, [00:42:00] and they all cross over in the middle, and that little section in the middle where they all cross over, that would be a sustainable solution.
So the three different pillars, they can be called many different things, but I like the ones that all start with E because it’s easy to remember. So there’s environment. Ethics and economics, they’re the three pillars of sustainability, and where they all cross over, that’s a sustainable solution. Now, why that’s a good visual is I think a circle is a good way to think about sustainability.
Regenerative, things always moving, not having stagnation, things need to be diverse and dynamic. And when we think about sustainable solutions or ideas that we can do, It needs to be crossing over and interweaving into all three of those sustainability pillars. So let’s have some examples then of each of the pillars and things that we can do.
And as I’m talking, you might, [00:43:00] you know, think, Oh, this seems like an environmental issue, but I can see that that crosses over into the ethical pillar as well. So let’s have a think of that while we’re chatting solutions, shall we? So environment. One thing we can firstly do is to reduce. So, reduce what we buy, reduce our food waste, reduce our waste in general, reduce wasting water, reduce wasting energy.
And so a couple of bite sized bits in there would be Turning everything off in your home at the wall. So it’s said that this can save up to 10 percent of your energy bill as well, and in these times things like that really help. So we can see that with sustainable solutions there’s also lots of opportunity to save you money.
And reducing your waste. So, you know, I’m not a minimalist, I do not have [00:44:00] a minimalist wardrobe, I really look up to those people that just have five things and that’s all they ever wear, I don’t know how they do it, I love clothing, I will always love clothing, but ways that I reduce buying new things is to learn to shop in a way that Everything I buy works all together, so avoiding things that are super trendy, buying really high quality things.
I would much prefer to save up for something high quality than to buy ten things that are going to be crap. Because the other thing about high quality items, and you’ll know this when you try them on. They make you feel good. And that’s also the power of fashion is you can put something on and it can make you feel amazing.
You can have an important meeting, put on a suit and feel a million dollars. You know, this power of fashion can happen, but it’s not going to happen with a 10 suit. You’re going to [00:45:00] feel cheap. It just is what it is. So we can look for quality and avoiding trends. I say that hesitantly because I think some people are always going to love trends and I never want to alienate anyone.
I want everyone to be part of this conversation. So then there’s, there’s ways that we can buy trendy items that is. a more sustainable way of doing it. And one example there would be to buy from Depop, for example. Now, lots of people are put off buying secondhand. I’m a huge secondhand buyer. That is mainly where I buy all my clothing.
But with these new amazing platforms like Depop, Vestiaire Collective, and The RealReal, You can actually get things that still have the tag on them. So they essentially haven’t been worn yet. They essentially are new, but you’re getting it for a fraction of the price. So my tip, [00:46:00] if you do want something super trendy would be, can you get it on depop?
And then can you resell it on depop before it goes out of style again? So essentially you might. be making money on that item, you could sell it for more than you bought it for, or you could be just renting it, where you can sell it for a little bit less than you bought it for. So again, can you see how all of these ideas are actually also saving money, which is amazing.
So the other misconception with sustainability shifts is that you have to miss out. I think there’s still this image where you have to just be wearing a neutral colored hemp sack and that you just eat organic vegetables straight out of the ground and there’s still this idea about sustainability and it’s not that.
You can be looking fabulous in an amazing trendy item that you’ve bought in a sustainable way. So there’s some of the ideas there, and really here we’re talking about the environmental [00:47:00] pillar of reducing our waste, but can you see there when we talk about peer to peer economies, then we’re going into the economic pillar, if we’re talking about buying on Depop, you know exactly who you’re buying the item from.
You, because it’s not new, you don’t have to worry about that long supply chain of where was the raw material made, where was it dyed, where was it woven, who sewed it, who shipped it, who was working in the store. All of these opportunities for ethical issues are gone because you’re just buying it directly from someone.
Reducing food waste is a massive one. And you know. I don’t know if anyone ever gets this right. Apparently we still, even if you’re being diligent, can waste up to 15 percent of your food. Then there’s ways that you could use that waste. So like you said before, are you doing a bit of composting so that none of that food waste actually goes [00:48:00] in the bin?
Can you use it for different things? One of the things I really like doing in my kitchen Is whenever I’m cooking, if I’m chopping the top off the zucchini or chopping the top off the carrot, the little bit that I’m not going to use, I have a container in my freezer that I chuck it in. And then that’s what I make my bone broths with, or that’s what I make my soup with.
I wait until it gets full of scraps and then I’ll make a soup with it and then I’ll put those scraps in the compost. So really on a deeper level, I think it’s having respect for. Um, everything that you buy or everything that you have thinking, you know, how can I use this to its greatest value and not thinking about things that are just throw away items.
And unfortunately we’ve got to this point with mass production and consumerism where We don’t have to value things like we used to. We can buy anything we want at the [00:49:00] click of a button. We could buy a hundred of them. And so it’s lost its value. But I’ve heard you say this before, Melissa, on a podcast as well, like that’s your hard earned money.
You’re paying for that. So let’s use it to the nth degree. And I’ve also heard you say, you know, when you’ve come to the end of the life with a garment, can you use it as a rag in your home? Use everything one more time. And that’s a really simple, easy way and easy way to, to be sustainable. So there’s some environment ideas.
The biggest one there in environment I would say would be, could you switch your home to green energy? And it’s usually quite quick depending on where you live. Where I live, I, I just had to fill out a form. And I think within a few minutes, my home was on green energy. I’m with Diamond Energy, which is also a co op.
And when we talk about co ops, we’re also looking at different economic systems where it’s more local and more people [00:50:00] can find value in it than just people in a boardroom. So there we are shifting into the economic pillar again and new diff, not new, co ops are very Very old systems, amazing systems, but different ways of doing business that isn’t just that one person at the top.
And so there, that’s my biggest, you know, ideas for environment, shopping local, reducing, buying less, buy secondhand if you can, but buy it secondhand with a tag on it. If you’re not into secondhand, resell your items, look at co ops in your area for energy, green energy, switch everything off at the wall.
There’s some really quick fixes. And then let’s move into the ethics pillar. So that is really looking at knowing where your things come from. And again, one really easy way to do this without having to an email companies about complex supply chain systems that they might not even know about is to [00:51:00] shop local and to shop directly from someone who made something.
Also, shifts into that environmental pillar because we’re not sending things by courier or by mail to a faraway destination, so we’re saving CO2 emissions, so that’s also fantastic. And then another thing we can do is shop with social enterprises that, you know, there’s some symbiotic goodness happening.
So it’s not just someone at the top getting all the profit. An example would be the social outfit, for example, which is in Sydney. And it’s an amazing company. They empower, hire and train refugee women to sew the items. And so you’re buying something that’s not just, they use deadstock fabrics as well, which is another fantastic one.
Again, nothing new is a big thumbs up, but they. [00:52:00] are also, you’re supporting women, you’re supporting refugee women, find a community, find work. Clothing does have this power to, everyone can be benefiting from the system. And I really want to talk about this a little bit later on of how we can think of solutions where everyone benefits.
But there’s some ideas within the ethical pillar. And then lastly, the economic pillar. Now, this feels less sexy to people. I think lots of people when they think about sustainability really just hone in on that environmental pillar. Economics is just as important. Again, if we go to the visual and it’s the circles, they all have the same weight.
So the economic pillar can be where you keep your money. So who are you banking with? Who are you investing with? Are they supporting fossil fuel industries or? You know, can you bank with someone that is investing your money [00:53:00] in renewables? Again, this is your money. And I feel a lot of us are so disconnected from our money in a savings account that we just see on a screen.
We have no idea where that bank is investing that money. And we really should know because if we all were investing for a future that we want, and all of that money came out of banks that are. You know, supporting the fossil fuel industry and shifted gears, that would be an instant overnight shift in world economics.
So again, exactly what you’re saying. We actually hold all the power here and it’s realizing that. So where do you keep your money? Another one is your superannuation in Australia. Where do you keep your superannuation? Can that be in a fund that is not supporting fossil fuels? And then in this economic pillar as well, we’re looking at different ways of doing business.
So that’s that swap share economy. You know, can we think of [00:54:00] different ways that we can be sharing items? I mean, in, in Sydney, we’ve got car share. Which used to be car next door that got bought by Uber. But, you know, we’re sharing cars. Can we share our wardrobes? Can we have peer to peer rentals? Can we think about different economic models?
And I work with this most amazing indigenous not for profit called AIM, A I M E. And that CEO, who’s an indigenous man, Jack Manning Bancroft, he’s looking at something called a kindness economy. He’s just written a book on it actually. And it’s how can we. Make exchanges that aren’t even monetary. How can we work in a way with our community and keeping it local that we’re exchanging time or exchanging energy to make these symbiotic connections that are not only sustainable, but you know, everyone wins.
Um, an example there, because I [00:55:00] really do love hyperlocalism is, you know, thinking of something that you already do in your life. Let’s say you go surfing every Saturday and then your neighbor who’s got a teenage son, that son gets really bored and you can see that he’s just out the front kind of kicking a ball around, got nothing to do.
And so you offer to your neighbor, Hey, why don’t I take your son surfing with me? I go every Saturday morning. That could be. You know, really easy and fun for us to do. Amazing. So you’re helping out a neighbor, but you’re also just doing what you’re going to do anyway. And then in turn, your neighbor goes, Hey, that’s, thank you so much for taking him surfing.
Is there any way that, you know, You might want me to pick your kids up on a Friday afternoon. I’m doing it anyway, they both go to the same school. Yeah, amazing, I would love for you to pick my kids up on a Friday afternoon, because that might create the space for me to go to yoga, or whatever that might be.
[00:56:00] And even though this doesn’t feel like an economy, it just feels like being neighbourly. You can see that through community and through connection, you are creating sustainable systems, doing good for people, keeping it local. It’s just a win win for everyone. So that sits in the economic pillar. Hopefully that’s a couple of good examples within each of things that we can do.
Melissa: I love these tips so much, babe. They’re so helpful. Helpful, really, really, really helpful. And I hope everyone was either writing them down or making a mental note of things that they can start to do because it’s so important. So a lot of my girlfriends and I, we share clothes, swap clothes, give away clothes, like all the time.
You know, if there’s a top that I’m like, I don’t want this anymore. And so and so will like it. If there’s anything that comes into my house. That I do not want, I pass it straight on. I don’t hoard it. I [00:57:00] don’t keep it. I’m constantly gifting and sharing. And, you know, I have that mentality. If I have something, it’s sitting in my garage and I’m not using it.
Of course you can come and use it. Of course. And, you know, people that don’t, I’m always like, why, what, what’s the story behind that? Like, what’s the story? And maybe they’ve had some childhood trauma of their oldest sibling taking their things or whatever it is. But for me, like, this is always how I have been sharing always.
Um, I just loaned my juicer to a friend for a couple of weeks, you know, like she was like, I really feel like juicing. I’m like. Borrow my juicer. Do not go out and buy one. Do not go and buy one. Borrow mine. So she borrowed it for a few weeks and she’s like, yeah, I’m done juicing now. Here it is. And I was like, okay, great.
So, yeah, you know, just there’s always ways, you know, for me as well. I don’t go out to fancy things. I don’t wear, you know, those sorts of clothes anymore. [00:58:00] So like if, for example, something does pop up, I’m like, I’m not going to go buy a brand new dress for this once off occasion. Look around at my friends.
Who’s got something? Okay, cool. Can I borrow that? So there’s so many things. that we can do that will really, really make a difference. But I just wanted to touch on the Indigenous stuff that you mentioned before. You often say that we should be looking to Indigenous cultures to help change our approach to farming and find environmental solutions.
So can you tell us a little bit more about this?
Celeste: Yes, absolutely. So, as I mentioned, I work with the Indigenous Not for Profit AIM and working with that CEO, Jack, has been the most challenging, rewarding, experience of my career. And at first, you know, those challenges of questioning the way that I [00:59:00] think things should work and, and I’m talking about a business setting here.
So questioning how meetings should happen or how events should go. I was curating. Uh, a section for Humankind Festival for AIM recently, and really thought that I had come up with some ideas that were, you know, going to be super valuable to everyone that went and how can we share these indigenous knowledge systems with, with, you know, the wider population and get them really inspired about it and, and over and over and over again, you know, Jack would call me and be like, no.
That’s not, that’s not it. Like you’re completely missing the point. One example there would be for Humankind Festival. I wanted to set up these panel discussions with experts. And I wanted each one to have a theme that isn’t usually talked about so much at sustainability events. I don’t know if anyone listening [01:00:00] goes to sustainability panel discussions, but I do feel they just talk about the same thing.
And it’s usually the same people on the panel talking about the same thing. And I’m just so sick of it. No one has any new ideas. There’s no dynamic conversation. Everyone just wants to talk about what they’re doing. Um, and. So I wanted to curate these panel discussions to be dynamic conversations, so getting people in the room who wouldn’t usually sit together and having themes around it, one of them being regenerative fashion rather than sustainable fashion.
And Jack was like, no, that is. such a white way of doing things and we are not doing that. I would rather everyone come in, sit on the floor in a circle and just have a yarn. And for me, you know, I had lent on my network of experts and reached out to people [01:01:00] who At first, I was like, how am I going to explain to people that they’re no longer presenting on a panel discussion, that we just want them to turn up and have a chat?
And how am I going to explain to them that that’s going to be even more valuable and You know, how are they going to get something out of it? Anyway, long story short, Jack has really instilled this passion in me now of Indigenous systems thinking for a sustainable future, and I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on it.
It’s just something that I’m really leaning into and I’m really excited about. I have the utmost respect for all Indigenous cultures and their knowledge, and I will not pretend to be able to give that knowledge today because that is not something that I’m able to do. But one thing I’ll share about this is.
I’m currently reading a book [01:02:00] called Sand Talk by Tyson Young Kaporta. And I don’t know if you have a book like this, Melissa, that you can relate, but every single page is like an epiphany. And I’m not someone that likes underlining books or highlighting in books because I always pass books on and I don’t want to instill what I thought was really interesting onto the next reader.
So I’m just folding down every single page that I’ve got something. That I want to come back to or that I’m just like, this is incredible. I need to come back to this. And I think I’m about maybe a hundred pages in and it’s just all folded corners. Wow. Yeah, it is blowing my mind. And, you know, this book is about Indigenous knowledge systems for a sustainable future.
So it is really completely linked to this, but it’s just completely, it makes so much sense to me, the more that I read it. [01:03:00] We should be using this ancient knowledge and this is where the solutions lie. And, and why aren’t people in companies and with brands hiring indigenous consultants to talk about this or finding out if, if there’s any way to put this systems thinking into their business models.
I think what I’m learning so far is again, as I mentioned this before, but everything needs to be. Circular, dynamic, and moving, constantly moving, regenerating. And we need to zoom out and think about the problems that we’re facing in a new way. And I said this with the definition of sustainability. That it’s completely human centric.
We’re not thinking about the whole complex systems of the earth. We need to be thinking about those and indigenous knowledge [01:04:00] has those answers. One very complex system that’s explained in the book, which I’ll share because I really love it and it’s quite simple to understand is this relationship between a bush ants.
and a worm. And so what happens in this complex system is the worms eat the bush, right? And then at night the ants crawl up to the bush, grab the caterpillars, and bring them into the ant’s nest. to the queen, because by the caterpillars eating this certain leaf, they grow a substance on the outside of their body, which is this fundamentally amazing food for the queen.
So the queen is able to have access to this amazing nutrient. Then the ants in the morning carry The worms back up onto the, [01:05:00] the bush to start the process again. And then they do that every single night until the, the caterpillar becomes a butterfly. And then the cycle starts again. And why I love that so much is it’s a really obvious example in nature that systems can work where every single element benefits, every single element thrives.
Nothing is depleted. everything stays in balance. And, you know, the answer is right there in that example, I can feel it. And if someone’s listening and has just had a light bulb moment of a sustainability solution from that example, like, please, it’s all right there. in that. We can make clothing in a way that everyone benefits and not just clothing, everything, like let’s zoom out.
Sustainability can mean that [01:06:00] we have these new ways of doing things that isn’t depleting the soil. It’s giving back to the soil, isn’t creating ethical issues like slave labor or, you know, huge farming just for leather. No one needs to be hurt in the supply chain. Everyone can be winning and if I had the solutions for this, I would be screaming them from the rooftops, but I hope just even having this conversation, some people out there are having light bulb moments that might lead to a more dynamic solution because the people in boardrooms right now at a governmental level are not thinking in this way and we’re just out of time and we need big picture thinkers.
Yeah,
Melissa: absolutely. Absolutely. I want to go back to giving a few more practical things that people can do. Like you mentioned before, so many people do online shopping. So let’s talk about that for a minute. Not [01:07:00] only do our clothes then have a huge carbon footprint because they’re getting shipped to us from all over the world, but like we mentioned before, a huge amount of them come in plastics and all sorts of things.
What else can we do if we’re going to choose to shop online, besides what I said before about potentially emailing them and saying please don’t put any plastics? Is there anything else that we can do besides maybe just shopping locally and not going overseas?
Celeste: Hmm. So, you know, most of us shop online.
It’s a reality. And as much as I would like to say, stop shopping online and just go to your local op shop, I’m very aware that’s not reality. And so we do need to think of better ways of doing things. I, one idea I have that I really like is to find online stores where you can get. Quite a few things you need in one place.
So one of the problems with shopping [01:08:00] on a site like Amazon, for example, would be you might order three things, but they come from three different suppliers and you end up with those three different packages. So three times the amount of CO2, three times the amount of packaging. Could you find a website where you can get a few things you need rather than shopping separate now, depending on.
what you need to buy, if it’s things for the home. There are really good websites like Flora and Fauna, for example, where you can buy, you know, beeswax wraps, all these little sustainability things that you might need around the home. All in one place. And the other thing that I would say there, and I’ve heard you say this before, Melissa, is every dollar that you’re spending, you’re voting for the world that you want.
So zooming out again, beyond packaging, let’s zoom out beyond CO2, who are you giving your money to? Don’t give your [01:09:00] money to Amazon. Give your money to a company that’s supporting refugees or give your money to a company that’s supporting women. And then, you know. If it has been sent online, if it has been sent in plastic, you are focusing on a bigger issue or you’re focusing on something that’s more aligned with your values and we can’t hope to be doing everything.
We can’t hope to be passionate about all of these systems or problems within sustainability. So another thing to think of would be what are you most passionate about in your life? What do you value the most? And it might be helpful to think about those three sustainability pillars again. Is it the environment?
Are you the most passionate about the environment? Well then, yeah, maybe you want to stop shopping online because that CO2 footprint is huge? Or are you [01:10:00] more passionate about supporting women and supporting people and that ethical pillar will then maybe let the CO2 emissions slide and buy from a company that is doing the right thing ethically?
Do they have? their supply chain transparency down. Because your thing that you’re the most passionate about is ethics. So we can really connect to what we’re most passionate about in this area and then start making our decisions from there.
Melissa: Yeah. I love that so much. And you know, we’ve said this a few times and I’ve said this so many times on the podcast and I’ll say it again, but every single time you are spending money, You are pulling out your cash or your card.
You are voting with your dollar. You are actually saying, I believe in this company. I support this company’s ethics and values. I’m going to buy from them. And for [01:11:00] me, it’s just, you know, that’s one of the big reasons I go to the local farmer’s market every Sunday. I go because I want my money to go straight to the farmers.
I want to be able to hand my beautiful avocado lady 10 cash. I know where those avocados have come from. So. You know, we can really make a difference. It starts with us. I want to be part of this change. I want to keep learning. I want to keep doing better. And I know so many people that are listening to this want that as well.
So for someone who’s looking to really up their game, maybe they’re doing a couple of the things that we’ve already mentioned, but they want to make even bigger of an impact. What are three things that they can focus on first? Maybe three things that we haven’t mentioned or. You can repeat them, but yeah, what are the first three
Celeste: things?
Someone wanting to go deeper. Yeah, I have mentioned them already, but the most important [01:12:00] thing really is where is your money and where are you banking and where is your superannuation? That is the number one thing and quite an Um, easy thing to switch because like what you’re saying about every, every dollar you spend votes for the world that you want, we will see the quickest amount of change and we can pressure that change in the greatest way with our money.
And so where you’re banking and where your superannuation is, is what is the number one thing. Number two, I would say would be, you know, I’m not an extremist and I don’t think being extremist here is helpful because I don’t want you to set yourself up for failure. So I know there are lots of people who wouldn’t buy anything for a year, for example, or, you know, the, the minimalist, I only have five [01:13:00] things in my wardrobe ever.
The thing with these is it’s, it’s, it’s a bit of a fad mentality and eventually when you stop that or you fail, you might give up altogether. So I never give advice that’s extremist. It is more about thinking, number two for me would be hyperlocalism. And so beyond the examples that I’ve given, if you are interested in this area, it would be looking at.
where your food is coming from locally. So can you go and work at a local co op or a local farm? Can you connect directly to those food systems and help your community become more resilient and more strong? Could you contact your local council and suggest having a sustainability event once a year where you?
you know, pull people together and help educate and have these higher [01:14:00] discussions within your local area. Lots of people can be put off by the political side of things, but again, that is a really good thing to do and a good way to make change. And number three, I would say, Is thinking bigger and zooming out.
So having a look at your habits, the way you do life and kind of what you’re saying, Melissa, about shopping at the local farmer’s market, or, you know, you might need to write these down, but where do you currently shop and being really honest with yourself as well? Like, Hmm, I kind of do buy something once a month on Amazon when I’m super time poor because I have a family and I just really need to buy that one thing.
Writing all that down and then seeing where you’ve. Um, and then I’ve got areas where you can improve or switch yourself. So one of the main things I do with clients when we do their strategy is impact measurement. So you can’t hope to reduce your impact unless you [01:15:00] know what you’re doing in the first place.
And you’ll be so surprised once you write down where you actually shop and how you actually do things that you might not be as good as you think. And this is very, poignant to me. And I’m saying this because this definitely happened to me. I did an initiative called Plastic Free July. Don’t know if you’ve heard of it, but again, I said this previously early on in my journey.
I was very, very zero plastic. So I did Plastic Free July for maybe five years in a row. And the first time I did it, I came into it going, I don’t hardly use plastic. This is going to be so easy for me. And I’ll tell you what, I lost weight that month because I didn’t know how to buy food without plastic.
The amount of things that I could even access, I was living in London at the time. Was very minimal and it absolutely blew my mind. So the, yeah, number three, biggest concept here would be [01:16:00] knowledge is power. Have a look at what you actually do and where you can make some switches. I
Melissa: love these tips so much.
So helpful, honey. And we’ve not really spoken about where we’re banking and where we’re doing our super. So. This is really important. Do you want to share any banks or super funds that you recommend? You absolutely don’t have to, but if you would like to, you’re more than welcome to.
Celeste: I won’t, only because things are shifting and changing so much, and one example there would be, I was researching who I wanted to bank with, and I thought I had made a decision, and it was a small, independent, newish bank.
And they got acquired by one of the, the larger banks just before I switched to them. So it is a complicated research project really, to have a look at. Who I bank with currently is Bank Australia. That is one that I know to date of this podcast is good, [01:17:00] but yeah, things are changing all the time. So please do your own due diligence with that and with the super fund as well.
So
Melissa: important. Of course, we vote with our dollar, but we also are voting with where we’re banking. It’s so important. So thank you so much for bringing this up. It has been so incredible, like the value in this episode is just mind blowing. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Now, I would love to hear if you had a magic wand and you could put one book in the school curriculum of every high school around the world.
Which book would you choose? And this can be on any
Celeste: topic. So my answer today is definitely Sand Talk by Tyson Young Kaporta. I have never in my life read a book where I have been so shaken and Changed to my core and I [01:18:00] would love if children were all connected to this indigenous intelligence from a young age.
I really wish I was, I think I would have done my career and my life very differently. And the other option, if I get a plan B, just equally as amazing would be the Untethered Soul by Michael Singer, because. That was also life changing for me. And I wish as a teenager or as a young adult that I was able to question my own thoughts and zoom out a little bit on.
Yeah, the processes of the brain and how we think about things. I think if people were able to take that on board, maybe the sustainability solutions that we need would already be here.
Melissa: Absolutely. I love that book so much and I’ll link to both of those in the show notes for anyone who wants [01:19:00] to go and grab them.
They’re both incredible books. Now, I’d love to hear about your day. I want to hear about all of your little rituals, your routines, how you set yourself up for a successful day. Talk us through a quote unquote typical day in your life.
Celeste: This has changed a lot since having a baby, but for me, yes, I love ritual.
I love to get outside first thing. I need nature and it’s so interesting because I’m finding this with my baby as well. It’s just so important for me for that connection and that calming feeling of anything I need to do in the day, just get outside, even if it’s for a couple of minutes and finishing the day being outside as well, whether I’m lucky enough to jump in the water or just go for a walk.
That is always an important part of my day. I love. Lighting a candle or burning some incense, setting my space up so it feels clear [01:20:00] and fresh, especially if I’m jumping into something like an amazing podcast interview like this. I lit my incense and sprayed some Palo Santo. And yeah, food is medicine as well.
I love food. Food is my love language. Food is my passion beyond anything else, so I’m always thinking about what I’m, I’m having for each meal in advance and making sure it’s amazing. Yeah, that would be my, my main things.
Melissa: Beautiful. And then how does the rest of your day unfold? Do you work every day? Do you work half a day?
How does that go?
Celeste: So again, I’m just back from mat leave, so it’s kind of fluid at the moment. With my own business, I’m taking the time where I can find those windows to jump on emails or jump on a call, but I find I work the best unstructured. So sitting down at a desk for eight hours a day doesn’t do it for me.
Also with creative projects through my consultancy, you need [01:21:00] to be. feeling it, right? I’m sure you feel the same with this. If I sit down at my desk and I try to do something creative, but it’s not coming, I will stop, stand up, go make myself a cup of tea, go outside, or switch tasks to do something else and come back to that later.
So I love being able to be dynamic and flowing. I also love to be able to be outside to take phone calls or to have that shift in environment to help with the, the shifting gears in the, in the headspace. But yeah, I don’t really have a structure at the moment and I’m loving it. What human design are you?
Do you know? I actually had this done recently and now I can’t remember. Can you remind me on what a couple of them are called? I think I’m a manifester.
Melissa: You might be manifester. Yeah. Manifester manifesting Generator. Generator, reflector or projector? Manifester. Okay, cool. Very interesting. [01:22:00] Yes. You are a manifester for sure.
I feel. I feel it. Maybe you’re not. Let me know after, but I was just curious to know, what are you, I’m a generator and I am like, oh. Aries, generator, and to the T, that is who I am.
Celeste: Wow. Oh, my son’s an Aries. I’m so excited on how that dynamic’s gonna work because I’m a Cancer and I’m so watery. I’m a like double Cancer and moon rising and he’s just like fire, energy, like it’s so different to me.
Wow. Wow. What date is he? He’s the 31st of March. Oh, so
Melissa: cute. So cute. What are you? I’m the 13th of April. Wow. Wow.
Celeste: Oh, okay. And what star signs Bambi? She’s also an Aries. Oh, how do you find that? Good.
Melissa: Good. I mean, she knows what she wants and she is very strong. Like I’ve had lots of readings done for her [01:23:00] and a lot of them come back like she is here to make a difference.
She is going to be a game changer. And I’m like, wow, I always visualized and because I have a step son, as you know, he’s 17, he’s quiet, he’s reserved, he’s calm, I’ve never seen him raise his voice, he’s very airy, you know, he’s an Aquarius, like he’s very just so calm, like his energy is so beautiful to be around, especially cause Nick, Bambi and I are all fire signs.
So we have Leo come in and we’re all just like, so I always thought that I would have this like really like quiet, really chilled babe and Bambi’s like, no, I’m here, this is what I want. And like, that also doesn’t surprise me, but I just thought because. You know, Leo, I thought, Oh, you know, I’ll probably have like someone opposite to me, like quiet and maybe shy.
[01:24:00] No, definitely not.
Celeste: How interesting. Yeah. I really thought I was going to have just a chilled Buddha baby as well. And that is not the case, but our babies are our gurus, right? So it’s all a learning for a reason. Oh yes.
Melissa: They’re so cute. They are so cute. Okay. Now I’ve got three rapid fire questions for you.
Are you ready?
Celeste: Ooh. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Melissa: What is one thing that we can do today for our health?
Celeste: Stop wearing synthetic fiber clothing.
Melissa: Yes. Beautiful. I love that. What is one thing that we can do for our wealth?
Celeste: Move your money. I love
Melissa: that. And I’m definitely going to be talking to Nick after this, I’m going to be like, we’re moving all of our money.
Like literally babe, after every podcast interview, I walk out of my office and I’m like, we’re changing this, we’re doing this. And like, he’s like, Oh my God, like [01:25:00] really? And I’m like, yes, we’re stopping this. We’re moving this. We’re changing. Okay. We’re changing energies. He’s like. Literally, he laughs like every time I come out, I’ve got something new that we’re
Celeste: doing.
But how good is that? How fantastic that you get so much value out of every conversation.
Melissa: Oh yeah, babe. Oh yeah. So much value. But he just laughs. He’s like, Oh God, what is she on about now? Love it. Okay. Last one. What is one thing that we can do for more love
Celeste: in our life? Connect to your local community. Go and knock on your neighbor’s door and just say hi if you don’t know who they are yet.
Melissa: Do you know what’s, I love that so much. And we’re currently renting while we build our dream home. And we’re doing that as toxic free and as sustainably as we possibly can, by the way. That’s
Celeste: a huge feat, babe. I take my hat off to you. Housing is a whole nother ballgame. I
Melissa: know. I know. I know. I know. And often a lot of the more sustainable options are a lot more expensive.
Which is crazy, [01:26:00] crazy, but we’re using a lot of natural materials and things like that. So where we’re renting, we’re on a bit of land here. And. I have wanted to go and knock on my neighbor’s doors so many times, but I’ve been like a bit scared. It’s so funny because there’s these people that live across the road and they’ve got three little boys and a dog and they’ve got like a trampoline and a slide and all of these things.
And every time Bambi and I walk past, I’m like, I want to make friends with them. So Bambi can like go and play with their little boys and she loves dogs and she can like play there. But every time I walk past, I’m like walking past, like looking in, hoping that the mum sees me, but she’s never there. I’m like hoping like, she’ll be like, Oh, hi.
And just like have a chat with me one day, but I think I’m just gonna have to take her some cookies. So she like likes me and wants to have us over.
Celeste: I know. It’s so interesting, isn’t it? It is scary to go and knock on your neighbor’s door, it really is. Because it’s that [01:27:00] fear of like, you know, it’s not the normal thing now.
They’re going to think we’re like, you know, peddling some sort of product or why is this person knocking on my door?
Melissa: I know. Seriously, if someone came and knocked on my door, I’d be like, is everything okay? Yes! Totally! Is there a fire in my backyard? Is
Celeste: everything okay? Oh my gosh, totally,
Melissa: yeah. But, you know, it’s really beautiful and when I first moved here, I set that intention.
I wanted to know all of my neighbors. So where we’re building, I have gone and made that conscious effort to know all of the neighbors and I want my children to Be running in the streets and to, you know, feel safe enough to like yell out and run into their house if they want to or whatever it is. So I’ve made a very conscious effort to do that where I am and it’s really beautiful.
But there’s a lot of holiday people where we live as well. So it’s very transient, but the ones that live there, I’ve made that effort and it’s really, it’s really beautiful. And you know, those people, those older people, they just love looking [01:28:00] out for your kids, which is so nice. Yeah.
Celeste: We had one of our neighbors mind Noah for a couple of hours the other day.
And you know, I was like, this is so amazing that everyone probably has a babysitter, like within 20 meters of where they live. And they just don’t know cause they haven’t knocked on the door, but we can all just be helping each other. And then the other day, my partner, Liam. He took one of our neighbors, Barry, who’s quite elderly, out for lunch because Barry lets us park across his driveway and Liam wanted to do something nice in return.
So it’s like what I was saying before about a kindness economy. I think people get put off that. Not put off, but it can be a bit scary or feel too time consuming to just be give, give, giving to people all the time, you know, going and dropping cookies to your neighbors and, and making the cookies. And, but just starting these conversations with [01:29:00] local community, you’ll always get something back.
Like it will become, you know, a beautiful relationship that you can lean on. And as well, for me, I think from having a baby. It changed my view on this because I think, you know, in my twenties and early thirties, I didn’t really care who my neighbors were. I was just doing my life and just really busy doing life like everyone is.
And then with having the baby, I’m like, Oh, you know, if I, if something happened and I needed help, who is the person that lives next door? I don’t even know their name. Like I want to know their name. And I. Or if I need to rush out and help someone else, can I leave my baby with them and will I feel safe doing that?
I need to know who they are. So yeah, having a baby changed that for me, I think.
Melissa: Mm hmm. Yeah. We don’t live in tribes and communities like we used to. And so we have to create it. We literally have to create it. It’s like a dream of mine to have like [01:30:00] all my friends living really close to me, all my friends and family, like living in the same suburb.
Like that for me is just heaven. Absolute heaven. So I’m like slowly trying to coax all my friends and family to like move up here, slowly, you know, more and more people are coming. So we’ll just see. But yeah, it’s really beautiful. You know, community is everything, friends, family, it’s everything.
Celeste: Yeah.
Especially raising babies. Hey.
Melissa: Oh my goodness. Yes. Absolutely. Oh, my darling, this has been so incredible. I could chat to you for hours. I have got so much out of this conversation. I’m literally going to go and tell Nick that we are switching banks and all those things. And you know, there’s so many areas we can do more.
So we’re going to continue to do that and grow and evolve and learn. But you are helping so many people, babe, with your work. You truly are making such a difference. You [01:31:00] should feel so proud of yourself. Like the legacy that you are leaving is really, really beautiful. So, I want to know how I and the listeners can give back to you and
Celeste: serve you.
Yeah, so I, I would love to connect with, with more people. And I guess the best way to do that would be through Sonsai Studios. So through the Instagram, so Sonsai is S O N Z A I. And that’s a Japanese word that means existence. Or you can sign up to the newsletter on sunzistudios. com, that would be fantastic.
Because for me, I really love it when people reach out to me and connect with me and it helps me tailor what I’m doing for my clients. to be better and more impactful. For example, recently, a lot of people have been reaching out who are working in, in fashion and see my journey and want to know how I [01:32:00] transitioned out of just being a fashion designer into having a.
sustainability consultancy. And so the fact that I’ve had quite a few people reach out wanting this information, it’s making me think, wow, okay, maybe I should put together a course or something where I can help these people transition and get them all over to the green side. So yes, connecting with me, asking me questions.
through those platforms. I would love that.
Melissa: That is such a great idea. I fully recommend some sort of online course or something to help people would be incredible babe, because I know so many people, especially listening to this want to learn more and do more. So I love that idea. And again, I want to thank you not only for all of the wisdom and the knowledge that you shared with us today, I’m truly.
But thank you for everything that you do in the world, hun. It’s been such a pleasure to reconnect with you. Thank you for being here.
Celeste: Thanks so [01:33:00] much, Melissa. It’s been such a beautiful, dynamic conversation and so good to connect with you again after all of this time. And thank you for all that you do.
Absolutely amazing. Thank you, beautiful.
Melissa: I am feeling incredibly inspired to. Take some of these things that Celeste has mentioned and really action them into my own life. And I really hope that you feel inspired as well. And if you did, please subscribe to the show and leave me a review on Apple podcasts, because that means that we can inspire and educate even more people together.
And also means that all of my episodes will just pop up in your feed so that you don’t have to go searching for a new episode. Now, please jump on over to Instagram at Melissa Ambrosini and tell me what you got from this episode and in particular what you were going to action today. I would absolutely love to hear your thoughts on this.
Now before I go, I just wanted to say [01:34:00] thank you so much for being here. This really shows me that you want to make a difference and you are my kind of people. So thank you for being here, for wanting to be the best, the healthiest and the happiest version of yourself and for showing up today for you. And the planet.
Thank you. You rock. Now, every single person in your life can benefit from this episode. So please share it with them. You can take a screenshot, share it on your social media, email it to them, text it to them. Do whatever you’ve got to do to get this in as many ears as you possibly can. And until next time, don’t forget that love is sexy, healthy is liberating, and wealthy isn’t a dirty word.

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